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Thread: YAH'S Calendar In The Heavens Genesis 1:14.

  1. #91
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    Inferred, not stated.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eliyah View Post
    See here..http://www.tillhecomes.org/case-for-...comment-205439

    to day G4594 is G71(LED) the G5026 third G5154 day G2250 since G575 G3739 these things G5023 were done. G1096 Luke 24:21 last part. http://www.blbclassic.org/search/tra...y&page=2&t=KJV

    You even argued with me in the sheaf of the firstfruits thread, that Luke 24:21 was referring to the fourth day quote in your post number 185 here...http://www.lo-ammi.org/forum/showthr...ht=days+nights

    You most definitely did put the English word "FOURTH" in your own quote of the last part of Luke 24:21.

    You and Spying both also added the word " leads away" which is the Greek word apagō =Strong's G 520 into this Luke 24:21 text, and this Greek word " apagō =G 520" is NOT used by Luke in this text at all! If Luke was wanting to convey the meaning to his readers, that THIS VERY DAY "led away" the third day, then why did he NOT use this Greek word " G520 apagō " in his text here? He definitely did use it elsewhere in his writings, and to mean "led away" see Luke 23:26. Here are plenty of examples showing G520 for those who DO NOT know the Greek Scriptures. http://www.blbclassic.org/search/tra...led+away&t=KJV

    G520 apagō From ἀπό (G575) and ἄγω (G71) 1.to lead away 1.esp. of those who are led off to trial, prison, or punishment

    So, you merely chop the Greek words up, and make them fit what you think the text says. It is evident, that I'm dealing with people who does not know the Greek Scriptures as it is written. You closed the "sheaf of firstfruits " thread up before I could even address many of these points.

    You wrote quote... in post number 185

    Quote of you... Well, the Greek word G71 simply means "LED" it does not mean "leads away" as YOU THINK IT SAYS.

    Spying also did the same here in post number 198 quote.. See here..http://www.lo-ammi.org/forum/showthr...ht=days+nights

    This above is not all, Ken, you also added the word "away" into the Luke 23:32 text. You wrote quote... Also, quote of you... See here...https://www.religiousforums.com/thre....140717/page-4

    This text says....And G1161 there were also G2532 two G1417 other, G2087 malefactors, G2557 led G71 with G4862 him G846 to be put to death. G337 Luke 23:32. http://www.blbclassic.org/search/tra...d&page=3&t=KJV

    The Luke 24:21 text does not support your position, this you had better come to grips with, and deal with it. There is a difference between what you think the text says, than what the text of scripture itself really does say.

    Shalom, YAH Bless!

    Eliyahu C.
    Shalom Eliyahu C, the fourth day is INFERRED, not stated. Our contention concerns your false accusation that I am telling others that the TEXT of Luke 24:21 has the words "FOURTH DAY." I have on multiple occasions told you that I have never said that the TEXT of Luke 24:21 has the words "FOURTH DAY" written in it. Here is a recap of what has transpired:

    Originally stated by Eliyahu C:
    Also, show me where the words "FOURTH DAY" is used anywhere in Luke 24?? Its not there Ken, I can't help but laugh, because you have told others, this is in Luke 24:21, and the Greek word is "tritos" means "third" tritos 1.the third, NOT "fourth"
    Do you see what you falsely accused me of telling others? I have never TOLD OTHERS that the words "FOURTH DAY" is used ANYWHERE in Luke 24. IF I have, please present that evidence, or admit you have been mistaken.

    On other posts you wrote:

    Originally stated by Eliyahu C:
    Your adding to the texts of scriptures here Ken, and your going on other forums doing it too.

    Now show me where this here τέταρτος Greek word is used in the Luke 24:21 text??
    Originally stated by Eliyahu C: The word "FOURTH" and the word "AWAY" is NOT in this text either. Then WHY are YOU saying it is used in this text on other forums? The words third day does NOT mean fourth day, and this IS what you are still saying
    That Greek word τέταρτος means FOURTH, and it is nowhere mentioned in Luke 24:21. So please Eliyahu, present any evidence you have where I have "told others" the words "FOURTH DAY" are in the TEXTS of Luke 24:21. Now, I have said the following on several occasions:

    Originally stated by ImAHebrew:
    If I tell you that today leads the third day away, then a logical and reasonable mind would figure out that today IS the fourth day, and NOT the third day, so it wouldn't be necessary to make any mention of τέταρτος in my statement.

    AND

    Eliyahu, "today" LEADS the third day (G575) DEPARTING, FLEEING away FROM (when those things were done), making "today," the FOURTH day. It doesn't say FOURTH day in the translation, but clearly infers it as "today" was separating itself or departing itself (G575) "AWAY" or "FROM" the third day.
    Do you grasp the difference between something being "inferred" versus being stated directly? You have repeatedly claimed that I have "told others" the words "FOURTH DAY" are in the TEXTS of Luke 24:21, and this is not true as Luke 24:21 only "infers" that it was the fourth day. Please concede this vital point so that we can move on.

    I will address the rest of your points in the next post, as I would like for this issue about your claim that I have told others that the words "FOURTH DAY" are in the texts of Luke 24:21. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew/Ken.

  2. #92
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    G71 and G575

    Quote Originally Posted by Eliyah View Post
    See here..http://www.tillhecomes.org/case-for-...comment-205439

    to day G4594 is G71(LED) the G5026 third G5154 day G2250 since G575 G3739 these things G5023 were done. G1096 Luke 24:21 last part. http://www.blbclassic.org/search/tra...y&page=2&t=KJV

    You even argued with me in the sheaf of the firstfruits thread, that Luke 24:21 was referring to the fourth day quote in your post number 185 here...http://www.lo-ammi.org/forum/showthr...ht=days+nights

    You most definitely did put the English word "FOURTH" in your own quote of the last part of Luke 24:21.

    You and Spying both also added the word " leads away" which is the Greek word apagō =Strong's G 520 into this Luke 24:21 text, and this Greek word " apagō =G 520" is NOT used by Luke in this text at all! If Luke was wanting to convey the meaning to his readers, that THIS VERY DAY "led away" the third day, then why did he NOT use this Greek word " G520 apagō " in his text here? He definitely did use it elsewhere in his writings, and to mean "led away" see Luke 23:26. Here are plenty of examples showing G520 for those who DO NOT know the Greek Scriptures. http://www.blbclassic.org/search/tra...led+away&t=KJV

    G520 apagō From ἀπό (G575) and ἄγω (G71) 1.to lead away 1.esp. of those who are led off to trial, prison, or punishment

    So, you merely chop the Greek words up, and make them fit what you think the text says. It is evident, that I'm dealing with people who does not know the Greek Scriptures as it is written. You closed the "sheaf of firstfruits " thread up before I could even address many of these points.

    You wrote quote... in post number 185

    Quote of you...
    Spying also did the same here in post number 198 quote.. See here..http://www.lo-ammi.org/forum/showthr...ht=days+nights

    This above is not all, Ken, you also added the word "away" into the Luke 23:32 text. You wrote quote... Also, quote of you... See here...https://www.religiousforums.com/thre....140717/page-4

    This text says....And G1161 there were also G2532 two G1417 other, G2087 malefactors, G2557 led G71 with G4862 him G846 to be put to death. G337 Luke 23:32. http://www.blbclassic.org/search/tra...d&page=3&t=KJV

    The Luke 24:21 text does not support your position, this you had better come to grips with, and deal with it. There is a difference between what you think the text says, than what the text of scripture itself really does say.

    Shalom, YAH Bless!

    Eliyahu C.
    Shalom Eliyahu C, as I addressed in my previous post, you did not show where I have "told others" that the words "FOURTH DAY" are in the TEXTS of Luke 24:21, and then you resort to writing many words about G71 and G575. Make no mistake, G71 does not mean "IS," as translated by the KJV, it means "to lead," and even the KJV uses "carried AWAY" in 1 Cor 12:2:

    1Cor 12:2 Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away (G71) unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.
    So your WRONG assumption here:

    Originally stated by Eliyahu C:
    Well, the Greek word G71 simply means "LED" it does not mean "leads away" as YOU THINK IT SAYS.
    Clearly shows you disagree with the translators concerning the meaning of G71 in 1 Cor 12:2. Those Gentiles, were "carried away" G71 unto these dumb idols. So this Greek word G71 does mean to LEAD or CARRY something AWAY, according to the KJV translators of 1 Cor 12:2. Again, the ONLY place the KJV translators translated G71 as "IS" was in Luke 24:21, and for the most part, translated this G71 to mean "to lead." So they should have translated G71 in Luke 24:21 as "leads" instead of "IS." "Today LEADS (G71) the third day AWAY FROM (G575) these things being done." Now, concerning G575, Strongs says this word means "away," NASEC says this word means "from," "away from," and Thayer's says, "of separation," "of departing, of fleeing," so is it difficult to understand that the third day "departs" or "separate's" FROM "today?" If the third day is departing from or separating itself from "today," wouldn't that mean that "today" is NOT the third day? Please explain how "today" LEADS the third day AWAY FROM those events, or separates "today" FROM or CARRIES AWAY the third day? You need to re-evaluate you understanding of G71 and G575. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew/Ken.

  3. #93
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    Merely inferred?

    Quote Originally Posted by ImAHebrew View Post
    Shalom Eliyahu C, as I addressed in my previous post, you did not show where I have "told others" that the words "FOURTH DAY" are in the TEXTS of Luke 24:21, and then you resort to writing many words about G71 and G575. Make no mistake, G71 does not mean "IS," as translated by the KJV, it means "to lead," and even the KJV uses "carried AWAY" in 1 Cor 12:2:

    So your WRONG assumption here:

    Clearly shows you disagree with the translators concerning the meaning of G71 in 1 Cor 12:2. Those Gentiles, were "carried away" G71 unto these dumb idols. So this Greek word G71 does mean to LEAD or CARRY something AWAY, according to the KJV translators of 1 Cor 12:2. Again, the ONLY place the KJV translators translated G71 as "IS" was in Luke 24:21, and for the most part, translated this G71 to mean "to lead." So they should have translated G71 in Luke 24:21 as "leads" instead of "IS." "Today LEADS (G71) the third day AWAY FROM (G575) these things being done." Now, concerning G575, Strongs says this word means "away," NASEC says this word means "from," "away from," and Thayer's says, "of separation," "of departing, of fleeing," so is it difficult to understand that the third day "departs" or "separate's" FROM "today?" If the third day is departing from or separating itself from "today," wouldn't that mean that "today" is NOT the third day? Please explain how "today" LEADS the third day AWAY FROM those events, or separates "today" FROM or CARRIES AWAY the third day? You need to re-evaluate you understanding of G71 and G575. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew/Ken.
    You NEVER read anything I quoted above did you Ken.

    Here is your entire quote..
    Shalom ALL, there is irrefutable proof that “Sunday” (the 1st day of the week) was the FOURTH day( Who added this word in this text? An Elf??), since these things took place. Consider Luke 24:21, the Greek word (G71-ago) that is translated “is,” should be translated “leads.” The translators were biased in thinking that Sunday was the third day. It should be rendered, “besides all this, today LEADS the third day AWAY from when these things were done.” Look at Luke 23:32, the same Greek word is used (G71-ago), and the two criminals were being LED (G71-ago) with him to be put to death. So that Sunday, the 1st day of the week was leading the third day AWAY, not that it WAS the third day.. This is why the disciples were sad, the third day had come and gone, and THAT day in which they were going to Emmaus, was LEADING the third day away.
    Now clearly YOU think, this first day of the week is the fourth day, because you wrote-quote not that it WAS the third day.

    That is more than merely "inferring" and you are also opposing and contradicting yourself in these statements. You have done this numerous times, like this one here below, which I had to bring over into this thread to address, because you suddenly closed the sheaf of firstfruits thread.

    Quote...
    When I told you that Mark was specifically speaking of the "1st day of the week" in Mark 16:2, I was wrong, and I will admit that to you.
    ......When I told you it was the first day of the week in Mark 16:2, it was, but not according to Mark 16:2.
    See here in post number 324 http://www.lo-ammi.org/forum/showthr...ht=Mark+16%3A2 I suppose you were merely "inferring" here too?

    Man I've never seen such opposing and contradictions in my life, first you say its NOT the first day of the week, then YOU say IT WAS, then YOU say, but not according to Mark 16:2. This again reminds me of what thee apostle Paul said...In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will. 2 Timothy 2:25-26.

    You also quoted...
    1Cor 12:2 Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away (G71) unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.
    The Greek word "ago=G71" is NOT used for "carried away" in this text either, the word " apagō=G520 " is used here.

    Ye know G1492 that G3754 ye were G2258 Gentiles, G1484 carried away G520 unto G4314 these dumb G880 idols, G1497 even as G5613 G302 ye were led. G71(Here is "ago".) 1 Corinthians 12:2.

    The Luke 24:21 text does NOT use the Greek word " apagō=G520 ". Clearly, the word " AWAY=G520" is NOT used in the Luke 24:21 text as you are adding it.

    But G1161 we G2249 trusted G1679 that G3754 it had been G2076 he G846 which should G3195 have redeemed G3084 Israel: G2474 and G235 beside G1065 G4862 all G3956 this, G5125 to day G4594 is G71 the G5026 third G5154 day G2250 since G575 G3739 these things G5023 were done. G1096 Luke 24:21.

    Clearly I'm dealing with someone who opposes himself and the scriptures, and you will not accept correction.

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    Luke 24:21 text DOES NOT USE " apagō=G520=away " in it at all as you are adding it.

    Here are the texts that uses the G520=apagō and says lead away.

    And G1161 he that betrayed G3860 him G846 had given G1325 them G846 a token, G4953 saying, G3004 Whomsoever G3739 G302 I shall kiss, G5368 that same G846 is he; G2076 take G2902 him, G846 and G2532 lead him away G520 safely. G806 Mark 14:44.

    The Lord G2962 then G3767 answered G611 him, G846 and G2532 said, G2036 Thou hypocrite, G5273 doth G3089 G0 not G3756 each one G1538 of you G5216 on the sabbath G4521 loose G3089 his G846 ox G1016 or G2228 his ass G3688 from G575 the stall, G5336 and G2532 lead him away G520 to watering? G4222 Luke 13:15. See here..http://www.blbclassic.org/search/tra...him+away&t=KJV

    Again, the Greek word apagō=G520=away is NOT used in the Luke 24:21 text at all.

    Now don't come back and tell me, that the word "AWAY=G520=apagō" is in the Luke 24:21 text, or I will only have to laugh!
    Last edited by Eliyah; 12-17-2014 at 11:30 AM.

  5. #95
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    Well then, how about 2 Tim 3:6?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eliyah View Post
    You NEVER read anything I quoted above did you Ken.

    Here is your entire quote.. Now clearly YOU think, this first day of the week is the fourth day, because you wrote-quote not that it WAS the third day.

    That is more than merely "inferring" and you are also opposing and contradicting yourself in these statements. You have done this numerous times, like this one here below, which I had to bring over into this thread to address, because you suddenly closed the sheaf of firstfruits thread.

    Quote... See here in post number 324 http://www.lo-ammi.org/forum/showthr...ht=Mark+16%3A2 I suppose you were merely "inferring" here too?

    Man I've never seen such opposing and contradictions in my life, first you say its NOT the first day of the week, then YOU say IT WAS, then YOU say, but not according to Mark 16:2. This again reminds me of what thee apostle Paul said...In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will. 2 Timothy 2:25-26.

    You also quoted... The Greek word "ago=G71" is NOT used for "carried away" in this text either, the word " apagō=G520 " is used here.

    Ye know G1492 that G3754 ye were G2258 Gentiles, G1484 carried away G520 unto G4314 these dumb G880 idols, G1497 even as G5613 G302 ye were led. G71(Here is "ago".) 1 Corinthians 12:2.

    The Luke 24:21 text does NOT use the Greek word " apagō=G520 ". Clearly, the word " AWAY=G520" is NOT used in the Luke 24:21 text as you are adding it.

    But G1161 we G2249 trusted G1679 that G3754 it had been G2076 he G846 which should G3195 have redeemed G3084 Israel: G2474 and G235 beside G1065 G4862 all G3956 this, G5125 to day G4594 is G71 the G5026 third G5154 day G2250 since G575 G3739 these things G5023 were done. G1096 Luke 24:21.

    Clearly I'm dealing with someone who opposes himself and the scriptures, and you will not accept correction.
    Shalom Eliyahu C, what are you thoughts about 2 Tim 3:6:

    KJV 2Tim 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away (G71) with divers lusts,
    Did the KJV translators get "confused" here. Why would they used the word "away" here for G71? Do you still stand behind these your words:

    Originally stated by Eliyahu C:
    Well, the Greek word G71 simply means "LED" it does not mean "leads away" as YOU THINK IT SAYS.
    Here is the thing Eliyahu, basically I do agree with you that the "simple" meaning of G71 is "to lead." It does not, nor ever will simply mean "IS," as the translators tried to say it does in Luke 24:21.

    Concerning 1 Cor 12:2, my bible software (Bible-Discovery 3.8) which I really like, has the "carried away" as G71. They may be wrong, as other sources use G520 which is a combination of G71 and G575 (which is interesting to note that BOTH G71 and G575 are used in Luke 24:21). But here is their version:

    1 Cor 12:2 Ye know 1492 that 3754 ye were 2258 Gentiles, 1484 carried away 71 unto 4314 these 3588 dumb 880 idols, 3588, 1497 even as 5613, 302 ye were led.520
    So I really don't know if your point is valid that we should ignore the fact that "today" leads the third day away from those things happening. I'm not sure, but I think Spying is going to address the Greek translation. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

  6. #96
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    Luke was indeed an educated man of his day.

    Quote Originally Posted by ImAHebrew View Post
    Shalom Eliyahu C, what are you thoughts about 2 Tim 3:6:

    Did the KJV translators get "confused" here. Why would they used the word "away" here for G71? Do you still stand behind these your words:(Yes, because every place else it is translated "led" and NOT "away=G520".)

    Here is the thing Eliyahu, basically I do agree with you that the "simple" meaning of G71 is "to lead." It does not, nor ever will simply mean "IS," as the translators tried to say it does in Luke 24:21.( The translators simply translated the primary Greek verb "ago" into the primary English verb "IS", and that is how proper translation is done for educated people. I could also argue, that this means "lead into" the third day, but the truth is, this word is not used in this text, and neither is the word "lead away" either.) ( After all, I do believe what the text itself really does say, and NOT what it does NOT say.)

    Concerning 1 Cor 12:2, my bible software (Bible-Discovery 3.8) which I really like, has the "carried away" as G71. They may be wrong, as other sources use G520 which is a combination of G71 and G575 (which is interesting to note that BOTH G71 and G575 are used in Luke 24:21).( But the word number G520 is NOT used here in this text either.) But here is their version:

    So I really don't know if your point is valid that we should ignore the fact that "today" leads the third day away(This word=G520 is NOT in the text at all.) from those things happening. I'm not sure, but I think Spying is going to address the Greek translation. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
    Ken, do you really tell people, quote..today leads away the third day since Tuesday, and therefore today is the fourth day since Tuesday??? If you do, then people are going to see you as an uneducated quack. The fact remains, Luke said.. to day-this very day's THE THIRD DAY from which these things were done, and he does NOT say, to day-this very day leads away the third day, and therefore it's THE FOURTH DAY from which these things were done.

    2 Timothy 3:6 is the ONLY ONE place that the translators used G71, and we know this is a mistranslation because every place else the word "led" G71 is used for "led", and the translators also mistranslated the word "led" as "G520"=away" in other places. See here...http://www.blbclassic.org/search/tra...led+away&t=KJV

    The word number G71 is ONLY translated "lead" ONE time in Mark 13:11 See here...http://www.blbclassic.org/search/tra...d&page=2&t=KJV Every place else, it is translated "led". See here...http://www.blbclassic.org/search/tra...d&page=3&t=KJV

    Now why do you think Luke used the word "led=G71" this very day, the third day in his text here?? The answer may surprise you.

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    Question Apago Verses Ago Apo!

    Hi Eliyah,
    Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!
    Here is Strong's definition for the Greek verb "ago":
    G71
    ἄγω
    agō
    ag'-o
    A primary verb; properly to lead; by implication to bring, drive, (reflexively) go, (specifically) pass (time), or (figuratively) induce: - be, bring (forth), carry, (let) go, keep, lead away, be open.


    Here is Thayer's Definition for the Greek verb "ago":
    G71
    ἄγω
    agō
    Thayer Definition:
    1) to lead, take with one
    1a) to lead by laying hold of, and this way to bring to the point of destination: of an animal
    1b) to lead by accompanying to (into) a place
    1c) to lead with one’s self, attach to one’s self as an attendant
    1d) to conduct, bring
    1e) to lead away, to a court of justice, magistrate, etc.
    2) to lead
    2a) to lead, guide, direct
    2b) to lead through, conduct to: to something
    2c) to move, impel: of forces and influences on the mind
    3) to pass a day, keep or celebrate a feast, etc.
    4) to go, depart
    Part of Speech: verb
    A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: a primary word

    Here is Strong's definition for the Greek preposition and/or particle "apo":
    G575
    ἀπό
    apo
    apo'
    A primary particle; “off”, that is, away (from something near), in various senses (of place, time, or relation; literally or figuratively): - (X here-) after, ago, at, because of, before, by (the space of), for (-th), from, in, (out) of, off, (up-) on (-ce), since, with. In composition (as a prefix) it usually denotes separation, departure, cessation, completion, reversal, etc.

    And here is Thayer's definition for "apo":
    G575
    ἀπό
    apo
    Thayer Definition:
    1) of separation
    1a) of local separation, after verbs of motion from a place, i.e. of departing, of fleeing, ...
    1b) of separation of a part from the whole
    1b1) where of a whole some part is taken
    1c) of any kind of separation of one thing from another by which the union or fellowship of the two is destroyed
    1d) of a state of separation, that is of distance
    1d1) physical, of distance of place
    1d2) temporal, of distance of time
    2) of origin
    2a) of the place whence anything is, comes, befalls, is taken
    2b) of origin of a cause
    Part of Speech: preposition
    A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: a primary particle


    Now, here is a copy of the biblical Greek for the latter half of Luke 24:21 as found in my copy of the Greek New Testament edited by Aland, Black, Metzger, and Wikgren and published in 1966:

    ἀλλά γε καὶ σὺν πᾶσιν τούτοις τρίτην ταύτην ἡμέραν ἄγει ἀφ' οὗ ταῦτα ἐγένετο.

    Allow me now to insert the English words into the Greek text:

    ἀλλά (but) γε (indeed) καὶ (and) σὺν (together with) πᾶσιν (all) τούτοις (these things) τρίτην (third) ταύτην (this or that very) ἡμέραν (day) ἄγει (it leads) ἀφ' (off, from, away) οὗ (which) ταῦτα (these things) ἐγένετο (it happened).

    Allow me now to put the above sentence together in a literal sense:
    "But, indeed, and together with all these things, it leads the very (in place of tautan above) third day away (from) which it happened these things."
    Notice that "that very third day" above are all in the accusative case. That should have been a red flag for all those who mistakenly translated "ago" as "is". Have you ever seen, Eliyah, a case where the subject and the predicate that is associated with the Greek word "is" is actually in the accusative case? "This very third day" is the direct object of the verb, "ago" above, and, therefore, those Greek words combined are found to be in the accusative case. And let me emphatically add here that "ago" does not mean "is".

    Please notice that my copy of the Greek New Testament is not the Textus Receptus; rather, it is the GNT Morph. Here is a link from the Blue Letter Bible which shows both Greek verses and an explanation of the two different texts:

    http://www.blbclassic.org/Bible.cfm?...&t=KJV#conc/21

    The KJV is based upon the Textus Receptus. Do you notice the difference between the two?

    Now, I just have to ask you, Eliyah, the Greek word G520, which is "apago", which is contracted from "apo" (G575) and "ago" (G71) and which is not found in Luke 24:21, and the Greek word G71, which is "ago" and which is found in Luke 24:21, what, Eliyah, is the essential difference between the meaning and usage of the contracted "apago" (G520) which is used elsewhere in the Greek New Testament (see Luke 23:26) and the "ago ap" (G71 & G575) that is used in Luke 24:21? Perhaps, I am being a bit presumptuous right here, but I would like to see how you explain the difference if you would be so kind?

    I understand that ImAHebrew has already addressed 1 Corinthians 12:2 with you since both G520 and G71 are used in that verse:

    Οἴδατε ὅτι ὅτε ἔθνη ἦτε πρὸς τὰ εἴδωλα τὰ ἄφωνα ὡς ἂν ἤγεσθε (G71) ἀπαγόμενοι (G520).
    Perhaps, you might be willing to describe for me the nature of these two verbs and how they are used in the above sentence?

    Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
    Sincerely, Latuwr
    The Currahee Band Of Brothers Are Beginning To Arise In The HOLY PLACE! Listen to them!!!

  8. #98
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    Exclamation There Is A Difference Between Present And Past Tense Also In Biblical Greek!

    Hi Eliyah,
    Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!
    You wrote and asked:
    "Now why do you think Luke used the word "led=G71" this very day, the third day in his text here?? The answer may surprise you."
    I am sorry to inform you, Eliyah, but Luke does not use the past (imperfect) tense of "ago" which if used, would indeed be translated "led" in Luke 24:21 as you state above. Unfortunately for you, Luke uses "agei" and "agei" is the 3rd person singular present indicative of the verb "ago". There is a difference between present and past tense in the Greek language just like there is in the English language. Am I wrong, or did you say that you knew biblical Greek?
    Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
    Sincerely, Latuwr
    The Currahee Band Of Brothers Are Beginning To Arise In The HOLY PLACE! Listen to them!!!

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spying View Post
    Hi Eliyah,
    Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!
    You wrote and asked:
    "Now why do you think Luke used the word "led=G71" this very day, the third day in his text here?? The answer may surprise you."
    I am sorry to inform you, Eliyah, but Luke does not use the past (imperfect) tense of "ago" which if used, would indeed be translated "led" in Luke 24:21 as you state above. Unfortunately for you, Luke uses "agei" and "agei" is the 3rd person singular present indicative of the verb "ago". There is a difference between present and past tense in the Greek language just like there is in the English language. Am I wrong, or did you say that you knew biblical Greek?{Yes, are you wrong? See below.
    Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
    Sincerely, Latuwr
    Hi Eliyah,
    Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!
    Shabbat Shalom!
    No matter how you attempt to slice it, the actual Greek makes it very clear concerning Luke 24:21. Let's look at the Greek text rather than the English translation which has corrupted your understanding, Eliyah. Here is how the KJV translators translated the Greek of Luke 24:21:
    Luke 24:21
    21 But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.
    Please note that the Greek word translated “is” by the KJV translators is not a form of Greek verb eimi; however, please understand that My Messiah Yahushua arose from the dead at the very end of the weekly Sabbath Day exactly 72 hours after Messiah was placed in the Tomb. My Messiah does not lie, and it is for you to prove HIM truthful rather than making HIM to be a Liar just like ordinary Christians make HIM in their scramble all over the place as they attempt to explain the three days and the three nights. You cannot explain HIS prediction concerning HIMSELF by your lunar Sabbath reckoning; therefore, you just like pagan Christianity deny that My Messiah Yahushua was entombed in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights. Shame on you and all those who discredit the fulfillment of My Messiah's words concerning HIMSELF. Ago is not eimi. Can you prove otherwise?
    Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
    Sincerely, Latuwr.
    Post number 195 See here..http://www.lo-ammi.org/forum/showthr...ghlight=fourth

    The Greek word "apago=G520" is NOT used in Luke 24:21, and you know it, if you understand the Greek.

    ταύτην ἡμέραν ἄγει ἀφ’ οὗ ταῦτα ἐγένετο

    You were saying?

  10. #100
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    Luke 24 and John 20

    We know that Luke 24:1; Luke 24:7; Luke 24:21; Luke 24:46, and John 20:19-20 that this very day, the third day is still the first day of the week, and all these texts of scriptures will prove so when put together.

    Only blind idiots would deny otherwise! Do I have to quote all these scriptures together to prove this??

  11. #101
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    I explained this above your post

    Quote Originally Posted by Spying View Post
    Hi Eliyah,
    Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!
    Here is Strong's definition for the Greek verb "ago":
    G71
    ἄγω
    agō
    ag'-o
    A primary verb; properly to lead; by implication to bring, drive, (reflexively) go, (specifically) pass (time), or (figuratively) induce: - be, bring (forth), carry, (let) go, keep, lead away, be open.


    Here is Thayer's Definition for the Greek verb "ago":
    G71
    ἄγω
    agō
    Thayer Definition:
    1) to lead, take with one
    1a) to lead by laying hold of, and this way to bring to the point of destination: of an animal
    1b) to lead by accompanying to (into) a place
    1c) to lead with one’s self, attach to one’s self as an attendant
    1d) to conduct, bring
    1e) to lead away, to a court of justice, magistrate, etc.
    2) to lead
    2a) to lead, guide, direct
    2b) to lead through, conduct to: to something
    2c) to move, impel: of forces and influences on the mind
    3) to pass a day, keep or celebrate a feast, etc.
    4) to go, depart
    Part of Speech: verb
    A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: a primary word

    Here is Strong's definition for the Greek preposition and/or particle "apo":
    G575
    ἀπό
    apo
    apo'
    A primary particle; “off”, that is, away (from something near), in various senses (of place, time, or relation; literally or figuratively): - (X here-) after, ago, at, because of, before, by (the space of), for (-th), from, in, (out) of, off, (up-) on (-ce), since, with. In composition (as a prefix) it usually denotes separation, departure, cessation, completion, reversal, etc.

    And here is Thayer's definition for "apo":
    G575
    ἀπό
    apo
    Thayer Definition:
    1) of separation
    1a) of local separation, after verbs of motion from a place, i.e. of departing, of fleeing, ...
    1b) of separation of a part from the whole
    1b1) where of a whole some part is taken
    1c) of any kind of separation of one thing from another by which the union or fellowship of the two is destroyed
    1d) of a state of separation, that is of distance
    1d1) physical, of distance of place
    1d2) temporal, of distance of time
    2) of origin
    2a) of the place whence anything is, comes, befalls, is taken
    2b) of origin of a cause
    Part of Speech: preposition
    A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: a primary particle


    Now, here is a copy of the biblical Greek for the latter half of Luke 24:21 as found in my copy of the Greek New Testament edited by Aland, Black, Metzger, and Wikgren and published in 1966:

    ἀλλά γε καὶ σὺν πᾶσιν τούτοις τρίτην ταύτην ἡμέραν ἄγει ἀφ' οὗ ταῦτα ἐγένετο.

    Allow me now to insert the English words into the Greek text:

    ἀλλά (but) γε (indeed) καὶ (and) σὺν (together with) πᾶσιν (all) τούτοις (these things) τρίτην (third) ταύτην (this or that very) ἡμέραν (day) ἄγει (it leads) ἀφ' (off, from, away) οὗ (which) ταῦτα (these things) ἐγένετο (it happened).

    Allow me now to put the above sentence together in a literal sense:
    "But, indeed, and together with all these things, it leads the very (in place of tautan above) third day away (from) which it happened these things."
    Notice that "that very third day" above are all in the accusative case. That should have been a red flag for all those who mistakenly translated "ago" as "is". Have you ever seen, Eliyah, a case where the subject and the predicate that is associated with the Greek word "is" is actually in the accusative case? "This very third day" is the direct object of the verb, "ago" above, and, therefore, those Greek words combined are found to be in the accusative case. And let me emphatically add here that "ago" does not mean "is".

    Please notice that my copy of the Greek New Testament is not the Textus Receptus; rather, it is the GNT Morph. Here is a link from the Blue Letter Bible which shows both Greek verses and an explanation of the two different texts:

    http://www.blbclassic.org/Bible.cfm?...&t=KJV#conc/21

    The KJV is based upon the Textus Receptus. Do you notice the difference between the two?

    Now, I just have to ask you, Eliyah, the Greek word G520, which is "apago", which is contracted from "apo" (G575) and "ago" (G71) and which is not found in Luke 24:21, and the Greek word G71, which is "ago" and which is found in Luke 24:21, what, Eliyah, is the essential difference between the meaning and usage of the contracted "apago" (G520) which is used elsewhere in the Greek New Testament (see Luke 23:26) and the "ago ap" (G71 & G575) that is used in Luke 24:21? Perhaps, I am being a bit presumptuous right here, but I would like to see how you explain the difference if you would be so kind?

    I understand that ImAHebrew has already addressed 1 Corinthians 12:2 with you since both G520 and G71 are used in that verse:

    Οἴδατε ὅτι ὅτε ἔθνη ἦτε πρὸς τὰ εἴδωλα τὰ ἄφωνα ὡς ἂν ἤγεσθε (G71) ἀπαγόμενοι (G520).
    Perhaps, you might be willing to describe for me the nature of these two verbs and how they are used in the above sentence?

    Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
    Sincerely, Latuwr
    Spying, I explained this in thee above post, please try reading it, and try understanding it, I know it's difficult for you, but please try. I'm not going to rehash what you SEEM TO THINK the scriptures say. And why do you misunderstand everything I write? I was asking, why was G71 used by Luke in 24:21?

    We know that Luke 24:1; Luke 24:7; Luke 24:21; Luke 24:46, and John 20:19-20 that this very day, the third day is still the first day of the week, and all these texts of scriptures above will prove so when put together.

    Only blind idiots would deny otherwise! Do I have to quote all these scriptures together to prove this?? I can't believe people are that blind.

  12. #102
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    Please show where any verses state "the third day IS the first day of the week"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eliyah View Post
    We know that Luke 24:1; Luke 24:7; Luke 24:21; Luke 24:46, and John 20:19-20 that this very day, the third day is still the first day of the week, and all these texts of scriptures will prove so when put together.

    Only blind idiots would deny otherwise! Do I have to quote all these scriptures together to prove this??
    Shalom Eliyahu C, please show where any of those verses STATE that "the third day IS the first day of the week." And please, do not say what you SEEM to THINK those Scriptures are saying, but ONLY what they do say.

    All KJV versions:

    Lk 24:1 Now upon the first [day] of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain [others] with them.

    Lk 24:7 Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.

    Lk 24:21 But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.

    Lk 24:46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

    Jn 20:19 - 20:20

    19 Then the same day at evening, being the first [day] of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace [be] unto you.
    20 And when he had so said, he shewed unto them [his] hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord.
    Eliyahu, NONE of those verses state that "the third day IS the first day of the week." It is ONLY what YOU seem to THINK what those verses say that brings you to that conclusion. And you know, sometimes people do come to idiotic conclusions based upon their preconceived notions. I look at those verses and I clearly see that the 1st day of the week was the FOURTH day, not the THIRD (based upon the PROPER translation of Luke 24:21), but my sight is not your sight. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew/Ken.

  13. #103
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    Question Apago & Ago Apo Revisited?

    Hi Eliyah,
    Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!
    Shabbat Shalom!
    You wrote:
    "The Greek word "apago=G520" is NOT used in Luke 24:21, and you know it, if you understand the Greek."
    We are in agreement here, Eliyah, for that is exactly what I wrote to you above, did I not?:
    "Eliyah, the Greek word G520, which is "apago", which is contracted from "apo" (G575) and "ago" (G71) and which is not found in Luke 24:21"
    I emphatically must say that I was not asking you whether "apago" was found in Luke 24:21. What I was asking you is whether or not you could see that both "apo" and "ago" are indeed used in Luke 24:21, and what I was further asking you to please explain to me the difference between the contracted "apago" and the uncontracted "ago apo" which is indeed found in Luke 24:21 and right here in your post as you did quote it above:
    "ταύτην ἡμέραν ἄγει ἀφ’ οὗ ταῦτα ἐγένετο"
    Do you see "ago apo" in your above quote? I will quote it again for you with the Strong's numbers included:
    "ταύτην ἡμέραν ἄγει (G71) ἀφ’ (G575) οὗ ταῦτα ἐγένετο"
    Now, if you would be so kind, would you please translate both for me:
    "apago" which is not found in Luke 24:21 equals what?
    "ago apo" which is found in Luke 24:21 equals what?
    Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
    Sincerely, Latuwr
    The Currahee Band Of Brothers Are Beginning To Arise In The HOLY PLACE! Listen to them!!!

  14. #104
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    Arguing words with two tear olds.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spying View Post
    Hi Eliyah,
    Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!
    Shabbat Shalom!
    You wrote:
    "The Greek word "apago=G520" is NOT used in Luke 24:21, and you know it, if you understand the Greek."
    We are in agreement here, Eliyah, for that is exactly what I wrote to you above, did I not?:
    "Eliyah, the Greek word G520, which is "apago", which is contracted from "apo" (G575) and "ago" (G71) and which is not found in Luke 24:21"
    I emphatically must say that I was not asking you whether "apago" was found in Luke 24:21. What I was asking you is whether or not you could see that both "apo" and "ago" are indeed used in Luke 24:21, and what I was further asking you to please explain to me the difference between the contracted "apago" and the uncontracted "ago apo" which is indeed found in Luke 24:21 and right here in your post as you did quote it above:
    "ταύτην ἡμέραν ἄγει ἀφ’ οὗ ταῦτα ἐγένετο"
    Do you see "ago apo" in your above quote? I will quote it again for you with the Strong's numbers included:
    "ταύτην ἡμέραν ἄγει (G71) ἀφ’ (G575) οὗ ταῦτα ἐγένετο"
    Now, if you would be so kind, would you please translate both for me:
    "apago" which is not found in Luke 24:21 equals what?
    "ago apo" which is found in Luke 24:21 equals what?
    Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
    Sincerely, Latuwr
    I'm going to put an end to this arguing over words, and this verse. Here below is every literal translation of this Luke 24:21 verse that is known, people can verify this for themselves, and to prove to others, that I do not lean on my on understanding of this verse.

    LITERAL TRANSLATIONS.

    Luke 24:21 YLT(i) 21 and we were hoping that he it is who is about to redeem Israel, and also with all these things, this third day is passing to-day, since these things happened. http://studybible.info/YLT/Luke%2024:21

    Luke 24:21 JuliaSmith(i) 21 And we hoped that this is he about to redeem Israel: but also with all these things, to day it brings the third day from which these things were.http://studybible.info/JuliaSmith/Luke%2024:21

    Luke 24:21 Darby(i) 21 But *we* had hoped that *he* was [the one] who is about to redeem Israel. But then, besides all these things, it is now, to-day, the third day since these things took place. http://studybible.info/Darby/Luke%2024:21

    Luke 24:21 Diaglott(i) 21 We but hoped, that he it is the being about to redeem the Israel; but besides all these third this day goes away to-day, from of which these occurred; http://studybible.info/Diaglott/Luke%2024:21

    Luke 24:21 Rotherham(i) 21 We, however, were hoping that, he, was the one destined to redeem Israel! But indeed, even with all these things, this brings on, the third, day, since these things happened:http://studybible.info/Rotherham/Luke%2024:21

    Luke 24:21 Godbey(i) 21 But we were hoping that He is the one about to redeem Israel: but truly in addition to all these things, this is the third day from which these things took place http://studybible.info/Godbey/Luke%2024:21

    Luke 24:21 CLV(i) 21 Yet we expected that He is the One about to be redeeming Israel. But surely, together with all these things also, it is leading in this third day since these things occurred." http://studybible.info/CLV/Luke%2024:21

    Luke 24:21 LITV(i) 21 But we were hoping that He is the One going to redeem Israel. But then with all these things, this third day comes today since these things happened. http://studybible.info/LITV/Luke%2024:21

    Luke 24:21 ECB(i) 21 but we had hoped it was he who is about to redeem Yisra El: but yet indeed, today is the third day since these became: http://studybible.info/ECB/Luke%2024:21

    Luke 24:21 ALT(i) 21 "But we were hoping that He is the One about to be redeeming Israel. But besides even all these [things], today brings this third day from which [time] these [things] happened. http://studybible.info/ALT/Luke%2024:21

    Interlinears: ACVI(i) See here..http://studybible.info/ACVI/Luke%2024:21 IGNT(i) See here... http://studybible.info/IGNT/Luke%2024:21
    Polyglot: See here...http://studybible.info/interlinear/Luke%2024:21 Apostolic Bible: See here...http://studybible.info/interlinear/Luke%2024:21

    Easy to Read:

    Luke 24:21 AUV(i) 21 But we had hoped that he was the one who would purchase the Israelites back [from their bondage]. Yes, and besides all this, it is now the third day since these things happened. http://studybible.info/AUV/Luke%2024:21

    Luke 24:21 BBE(i) 21 But we were hoping that he would be the Saviour of Israel. In addition to all this he has now let three days go by from the time when these things took place; http://studybible.info/BBE/Luke%2024:21

    Luke 24:21 JMNT(i) 21 "Yet we, ourselves, had been expecting that He is the One being now about to be progressively redeeming and thus liberating Israel, by payment of a ransom. But surely, to the contrary and besides all these things, this makes the third day since these things occurred. http://studybible.info/JMNT/Luke%2024:21

    Luke 24:21 NSB(i) 21 »We hoped he would redeem Israel. Yes and besides all this, it is now the third day since these things happened. http://studybible.info/NSB/Luke%2024:21

    This is by far the easiest and best translation of this verse in English-quote:
    Luke 24:21 WNT(i) 21 But we were hoping that it was He who was about to ransom Israel. Yes, and moreover it was the day before yesterday that these things happened. http://studybible.info/WNT/Luke%2024:21

    Now, is all these translations, Interlinears, and literal translations biased against this verse as Ken claimed? Does this verse really say, the FOURTH DAY since these things happened? No! third(3rd) day does NOT mean fourth(4th) day, and neither does the 4th day mean 5th either.

    One thing Ken said is true, if people come here and read this, they will conclude, that I'm indeed dealing with 1 or 2 year olds on this forum.

    Shalom,
    Eliyahu C.

  15. #105
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    Smile Translation!

    Hi Eliyah,
    Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!
    I wish to extend thankfulness to you for pointing out the numerous translations which disagree with my translation of Luke 24:21. Indeed, I do not know of anyone else previous to myself who has undertaken the responsibility to critically examine that verse to see what the Greek actually says without bringing to the table the false belief that Messiah Yahushua arose from the dead on the first day of the week, that is, Sunday, or, according to your belief, on the 16th of Abib.
    All translators bring their personal beliefs to their work of translating, and these beliefs often interfere with the perception of the truth. I understand that your belief in a Lunar Sabbath makes you fight aggressively against three days and three nights just like my belief in three days and three nights actually caused me to really dig into the Greek of Luke 24:21. Here is a link to the Translation Thread on Lo Ammi where I posted about this issue in the year 2008:

    http://www.lo-ammi.org/forum/showthr...-Translation#2

    It is my personal opinion (dogma) that your understanding of New Testament Greek is not sufficient to qualify you to critically examine my translation of Luke 24:21, and that deficiency is why you turn to all the English translations as your proof that I am mistranslating the verse. I hold this dogma because you have not been forthcoming about explaining to me the essential difference between "apago" and "ago apo".
    You still have opportunity to do so!
    Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
    Sincerely, Latuwr
    The Currahee Band Of Brothers Are Beginning To Arise In The HOLY PLACE! Listen to them!!!

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