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Thread: Blessed is he who comes in the NAME

  1. #1
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    Blessed is he who comes in the NAME

    Shalom Everyone,

    If some one is "real" concerned on what to pronounce, we can always look at David for our witness and simply call Him YAH. (YH: in scripture)
    David is after all supposed to be our "witness".

    Isaiah 55:3 Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, the sure mercies of David.
    4 Behold, I have given him for a witness to the people, a leader and commander to the people.

    In Psalms, in the Hebrew, David just says "Yah" (yh) at least 40 times.

    Even Moses just wrote "Yah" (yh) >

    Exodus 15:2 YAH is my strength and song, and he is become my salvation: he is my El (ruler/master), and I will prepare him an habitation; my father's El and I will exalt him.

    “Yah” the existing ONE, is actually what YHWH means!

    In Egyptian custom, they added the name of the g-d they served to their own name. Not just a “portion” of it. But all of it. I suspect the same with
    “YeremiYAH, IsaiYAH, NehemeYAH, and so forth.

    But for those that can receive this:

    The word > "Name"< means:
    H7760 ~Wf suwm {soom} a primitive root; 1) to put, place, set, appoint, make (Qal) to put, set, lay, put or lay upon, lay (violent) hands on 1a2) to set, direct, direct toward 1a2a) to extend (compassion) (fig) 1a3) to set, ordain, establish, found, appoint, constitute, make, determine, fix 1a4) to set, station, put, set in place, plant, fix 1a5) to make, make for, transform into, constitute, fashion, work, bring to pass, appoint, give 1b) (Hiphil) to set or make for a sign 1c) (Hophal) to be set

    "Name" means Power or Authority!

    Acts 4:7 And when they had set them in the midst, they asked, By what POWER, OR by what NAME, have ye done this?

    Acts 4:10 " Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name (POWER) of Yahshua (YAHS SALVATION) ..... by HIM doth this man stand here before you whole."


    When one truly believes in the TOTAL AUTHORITY of their heavenly Father.
    That there is NO POWER IN EXISTANCE outside of > HIM. Then one does "come" or "walk' or exist in HIS > name/AUTHORITY.

    when we put "power"/authority in our hands... when we are of the mind that we are anything but clay that the Father does mold in His good pleasure... We are NOT "coming/walking/existing" in HIS NAME.
    But are delusional and walking in what we "think" is our own authority.
    We are in fact saying that Yah does NOT have ALL AUTHORITY, and we "mock" Him.
    Everytime we point the finger... we are being "like g-ds" knowing good and evil.
    AND... We point the finger at THEIR MAKER.

    Every time we 'condemn' someone, we condemn their MAKER!


    When Moses asked Yah His name, Yah answered him thus >

    Exodus 3:14 And Elhym said unto Moses, AHYH ASHR AHYH: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, AHYH hath sent me unto you.

    AHYH ASHR AHYH:

    (A HYH) "Aleph": (A) > at the beginning of a word can mean;
    "Upon / over / authority"
    H1961 hy"h' hayah {haw-yaw} ¤ a primitive root [compare 01933];
    1) to be, become, come to pass, exist, happen, fall out (Qal) occur, take place, come about, come to pass, to arise, appear, come, to be instituted, be established 1a3) to be 1a3a) to exist, be in existence 1a3b) to abide, remain, continue (with word of place or time)

    (ASHR)
    H834 rv,a] 'asher {ash-er'} ¤ a primitive relative pronoun (of every gender and number); 1) (relative part.) 1a) which, who 1b) that which 2) (conj) 2a) that (in obj clause) 2b) when 2c) since 2d) as 2e) conditional if

    So Asher could be > which / who / that which / when
    OR:
    H833 rv;a' 'ashar {aw-shar'} or rvea' 'asher {aw-share'} ¤ a primitive root;
    1) to go straight, walk, go on, advance, make progress (Qal) to go straight on, make progress (Piel) to go straight on, advance, to lead on (causative)
    to set right, righten, to pronounce happy, call blessed (Pual) to be advanced, be led on 2) to be made happy, be blessed

    and then "AHYH" Again.

    So... AHYH ASHR AHYH could very well be, basically >
    "Authority of that which is"
    Or
    One who has the authority to set right that, which exists.
    or something to the like. Anyone can "choose" how they want to put it together, but I think He is just demonstrating that the One who Moses is speaking to is the one that has authority over all that exists.

    in Ex 3:15 Yah continues and says "YHWH" of your fathers the Elhy of Abraham... "This is my > name < (authority) for ever and this is my memorial to ALL generations. (not only the generations that was told about the phonetic sound Yahweh).



    Exodus 4:1 And Moses answered and said, But, behold, they will not believe me, nor hearken unto my voice: for they will say, YHWH (authority of all existence) hath not appeared unto thee.2 And YHWH said unto him, What is that in thine hand? And he said, A rod.3 And he said, cast it on the ground. And he cast it on the ground, and it became a serpent; and Moses fled from before it.
    4 And YHWH said unto Moses, Put forth thine hand, and take it by the tail. And he put forth his hand, and caught it, and it became a rod in his hand:

    One can easily see that Yah is indeed demonstrating that HE is the Authority of ALL that Exists. Not just “living” beings, but of “all” things. Which surely deep down we all know this.

    I realize people “think” that the scriptures say; you must speak this particular sound to be saved, but it is simply not saying this. One must believe in Yahs Salvation or HIS Works that are taking place.


    H3068 hw"hoy> Y@hovah {yeh-ho-vaw'} ¤ from 01961;
    ¤ Jehovah = "the existing One"

    As in the "ONE" and Only!

    H1961 hy"h' hayah {haw-yaw} ¤ a primitive root [compare 01933]; 1) to be, become, come to pass, exist, happen, fall out (Qal) to happen, fall out, occur, take place, come about, come to pass 1b) to come about, come to pass 1a2) to come into being, become 1a2a) to arise, appear, come 1a2b) to become 1a2b1) to become 1a2b2) to become like 1a2b3) to be instituted, be established 1a3) to be 1a3a) to exist, be in existence 1a3b) to abide, remain, continue (with word of place or time) 1a3c) to stand, lie, be in, be at, be situated (with word of locality) 1a3d) to accompany, be with 1b) (Niphal) 1b1) to occur, come to pass, be done, be brought about 1b2) to be done, be finished, be gone

    H1933 aw'h' hava' {haw-vaw'} or hw'h' havah {haw-vaw'} ¤ a primitive root [compare 0183, 01961]; TWOT - 484,491; v ¤ AV - be thou 2, be 1, shall be 1, may be 1, hath 1; 6 ¤ 1) Qal) 1a) to fall 1b) to be, become, exist, happen
    H1934 aw"h; hava' (Aramaic) {hav-aw'} or hw"h; havah (Aramaic) {hav-aw'} ¤ corresponding to 01933; ¤ 1) to come to pass, become, be (P'al) to come to pass 1a2) to come into being, arise, become, come to be 1a2a) to let become known (with participle of knowing) 1a3) to be

    H1942 hW"h; havvah {hav-vaw'} ¤ from 01933; ¤ 1) desire 1a) desire (in bad sense) 2) chasm (fig. of destruction) 2a) engulfing ruin, destruction, calamity

    On the onset, most would not care for the definiton of # 1942.
    However ...
    Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I YAH The Existing One, do all these.

    Isaiah 50:10 Who is among you that feareth YHWH (Yah the existing one), that obeyeth the voice of his servant, that walketh in darkness, and hath no light? let him trust in the name (power/authority) of Yah the existing one, and stay upon his El (ruler/master)

    When one realizes that the "true" things that are to be destroyed and engulf ruin ie; flesh, fleshly will (or the delusion of it), the pointing of the finger, condemnation, murder, thievery, adultery, sickness, desease, etc.
    One truly can see how # 1942 Is a wonderful thing. For all things are GOOD in the AUTHORITY of Yah.
    Yah is indeed the ONLY one who exists with all intent and purposes. For there is no authority outside of Yahs authority.
    And This is an Awesome thing!

    For all who know this walk/live in His Name or HIS Authority. And they are blessed!
    As long as one is of the mind that they have any "form" of authority, they will only reap sickness, and worries, and no peace and frustration.

    Isaiah 57:10 Thou art wearied in the greatness of THYway; yet saidst thou not, There is no hope:
    (Such as > Yah, I can't do this,I have no power, I am but dust, but Thou can do this, I prey thee, grant me this deliverance from such and such, there is NO HOPE in > ME (my way, my authority) but there is ALL hope in thee!)

    "thou hast found the life of THINE hand; therefore thou wast not grieved."

    People are still holding on to the delusion that we have a "say". So they are not turning to Yah and ASKING Him to GRANT them His righteousness or HIS salvation... they are still of the mind that they have authority of their life, and it is them that is doing the "deciding" of things. That they are in control.
    Therefore when they walk and talk and as they live and have their being they come or walk in their "own" name or authority or power. As long as this mind thought exists, there will be no remission of sins. For if their truly were, then it would be by our own power or name. And going about to declare "their" works, or the "works of man". Everytime we point the finger, we are declaring the works of MAN.

    But we are to be baptized in HIS NAME (power/authority) and so when one comes to one that is indeed baptized (inundated, completely surrounded) by the name/authority/power of The Father (maker), The Son (word) and the Holy Spirit (spirit of Truth). And says to them… I can’t stop doing this or that… The one that truly knows Yah will show them it is because they have no authority, so of course they can’t stop this or that. But what they can do is “Turn to their maker” and TALK to Him about it…

    Cont.
    "At that day
    shall a man look to his Maker,
    and his eyes shall have respect
    to the Holy One of Israel."
    Isaiah 17:7

  2. #2
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    Shalom everyone,

    Not sure if anyone has read all the first... (lol) but..
    "heres more". (smile)

    "Turn thou unto me and DECLARE THEYSELF (i.e.; O’ Yah I am but dust and can do nothing) that thou mayest be > justified”.

    Why does this justify you? Because if you truly BELIEVE in YAHS AUTHORITY or Yahs NAME, and you asked Him to create a pure heart in you or to deliver you from what ever causes
    “guilt” (iniquity) in you, and He does not, then His answer was “no”. But you asked, knowing all authority belongs to Him, so you ARE justified."

    But the answer wont’ be no! (LOL)

    For He turns none away that call upon HIS NAME/POWER/AUTHORITY. This is FAITH. To believe that inspite of yourself, Yah will work a work in you and make you white as snow! And YOU will not have a single solitary thing to do with accept that you turned to HIM.

    When this occurs, then one understands the "Key of David".
    "O' Yah create in me a pure heart", "forsake not the works of thine own hands" etc.
    Then doors are opened and NO MAN can shut it. Because NO MAN has ANY Authority!

    Revelation 3:7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;
    8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name. (Authority!) 9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

    Who is saying they are “Jews” and are not? Well… Are not the “Jews” Israel?
    And who is Israel? Well… Israel means; “Yah PREVAILS”. If one is of the mind, that ALL is of YAH and He Has TOTAL Authority, Then they are indeed Israel. Because they WALK talk and have their being that is completely of YAHS Power/control/authority. So Indeed Yah Prevails! And others will come and cling to them, and will “surname” themselves > after them… ie; as they have done ie; YAHS NAME/ Authority.

    As Yahshua says; “You will not see me henceforth until ye say; blessed is he who comes in the name of Yah”.

    If there is still any doubt, I pray thee to read Yahs response to Job.

    Isaiah 6:7 And HE laid it upon my mouth, and said, Lo, this hath touched thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin purged.

    Here the word for "Iniquity" is:
    H5771 !wO[' `avon {aw-vone'} or !Aw[' `avown ¤ from 05753;
    1) perversity, depravity, iniquity, guilt or punishment of iniquity 1a) iniquity 1b) guilt of iniquity, guilt (as great), guilt (of condition) 1c) consequence of or punishment for iniquity
    H5753 hw"[' `avah {aw-vaw'} ¤ a primitive root; 1) to bend, twist, distort

    when we are of the mind that we have a "say" or any form of authority, we are indeed perverse. we have distorted the truth and "twist" the authority of YAH.

    Isaiah 27:8 In measure, when it shooteth forth, thou wilt debate with it: he stayeth his rough wind in the day of the east wind.
    Isaiah 27:9 By this therefore shall the iniquity of Jacob be purged; and this is all the fruit to take away his sin; when he maketh all the stones of the altar as chalkstones that are beaten in sunder, the groves and images shall not stand up.


    Chalkstone that is "beaten" to power is DUST. The alter is "offering".
    "We cannot offer up ANYTHING That does not already belong to HIM.

    Isaiah 29:20 For the terrible one is brought to nought, and the scorner is consumed, and all that watch for iniquity are cut off:

    Here the word for iniquity is:
    H205 !w
    When something doesn't "go our way"... we get all bent out of shape, showing forth NO TRUST in the Perfect will and authority of YAH.

    If your car breaks down and you are late for work, the beast or the flesh is gonna get all upset. But if the spirit KNOWS Yah and hold to HIS Authority one can laugh and say; Thy will be done O' Yah".

    If one slaps you right across the face really hard, the flesh wants to slap back and condemn them for their actions. But if one KNOWS that ALL Authority belongs to YAH and HE is "their" maker just as HE is yours... Then one can "turn the cheek and say; thy will is perfect O' YAH" And WATCH Your BLESSING RAIN DOWN UPON YOU. When you uphold HIS Authority NO MATTER WHAT... and TRUST HIM.
    Surely GOODNESS AND MERCY SHALL FOLLOW YOU ALL THE DAYS OF YOUR LIFE.

    Watch, Trust and praise the NAME (Power/Authority) OF YAH.

    Now unto HIM that is ABLE to KEEP you from FALLING, to present you FAULTLESS, before the presene of HIS GLORY with EXCEEDING JOY.
    to the ONLY WISE EL OUR SAVIUR, be glory and majesty, DOMINION AND POWER BOTH NOW AND EVER!
    Let us ALL say HalleluYAH. Praise YAH.

    love,
    d'


    "At that day
    shall a man look to his Maker,
    and his eyes shall have respect
    to the Holy One of Israel."
    Isaiah 17:7

  3. #3
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    DeAnna,

    You made the statement -
    (A HYH) "Aleph": (A) > at the beginning of a word can mean;
    "Upon / over / authority"
    I was wondering if could expound on the "Aleph" at the beginning of a word to mean "authority." Could you please give me a couple of examples?

    Also,
    So... AHYH ASHR AHYH could very well be, basically >
    "Authority of that which is"
    Or
    One who has the authority to set right that, which exists.
    or something to the like. Anyone can "choose" how they want to put it together, but I think He is just demonstrating that the One who Moses is speaking to is the one that has authority over all that exists.
    I don't know that one can interpret "AHYH" as "authority." Is there anywhere else in scripture where it is interpretted that way? I would want to translate the three words: "I am who I am."
    The idea that "name" means power or authority makes a lot of sense to me.

    With Love, in Yah's Name,
    hyssop

  4. #4
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    Shalom Hyssop,

    Ya know... My friend had this Eytomology dictionary of the Hebrew. It was from there that I go these letters at the beginning of a word may translate as thus; ...

    "Aleph" > upon, over, authority
    beth; > within
    daleth; > away from, according to, out of
    Heh; > The
    kaf; > likeness of, same
    Lamed; > unto
    mem; > from, of

    So... you ask me this question, and I go a searching. And I suppose they are saying "authority" as in > " I ". as in authoritive... "who" did it.
    I realize they are translating "A HYH (I AM) ASHER (THAT # 834 a prim. relative.) A HYH (I AM).
    And it "can' be translated this way.

    however... I > DeAnna, am that I am. I am a woman...
    that is all I can be.
    "I am that I am" is >> limited.
    I do not believe this is what Yah was saying.

    Exodus 3:14 And Yah said unto Moses, AHYH ASHR AHYH: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, AHYH hath sent me unto you.

    Aleph; I > hyh >
    H1961 ' hyh {haw-yaw} ¤ a primitive root
    1) to be, become, come to pass, exist, happen, fall out (Qal) occur, take place, come about, to come into being, become, to arise, appear, to be instituted, be established, to abide,
    remain, continue (with word of place or time) to stand, lie, be in, be at, be situated (with word of locality) 1a3d) to accompany, be with 1b) (Niphal) 1b1) to occur, come to pass, be done, be brought about 1b2) to be done, be finished, be gone

    ASHR:
    H834 'asher {ash-er'} ¤ a primitive relative pronoun (of every gender and
    number); 1) (relative part.) 1a) which, who 1b) that which 2) (conj) 2a) that (in
    obj clause) 2b) when 2c) since 2d) as 2e) conditional if

    OR

    ASHR:
    H833 ashar {aw-shar'} ¤ a primitive root; ; v ¤ 1) to go straight, walk, go on, advance, make progress (Piel) to lead on (causative), to set right, righten, to pronounce happy, call blessed (Pual) to be advanced, be led on, to be made happy, be blessed

    A HYH
    H1961 ' hyh {haw-yaw} ¤ a primitive root 1) to be, become, come to pass, exist, happen, fall out (Qal) occur, take place, come about, to come into being, become, to arise, appear, to be instituted, be established, to abide, remain, continue (with word of place or time) 1a3c) to stand, lie, be in, be at, be situated (with word of locality) to accompany, be with (Niphal) to occur, come to pass, be done, be brought about , to be done, be finished, be gone

    I think AHYH ASHR AHYH is basically saying that "He brings about or
    esablishes and "rightens" or straightens or blesses all that exists.

    Then He confirms it later on in scripture; >

    Exodus 4:1 And Moses answered and said, But, behold, they will not believe me, nor hearken unto my voice: for they will say, YHWH hath not appeared unto thee.
    2 And YHWH said unto him, What is that in thine hand? And he said, A rod.
    3 And he said, Cast it on the ground. And he cast it on the ground, and it became a serpent; and Moses fled from before it.
    4 And YHWH said unto Moses, Put forth thine hand, and take it by the tail. And he put forth his hand, and caught it, and it became a rod in his hand:

    And then demonstrates further >

    6 And YHWH said furthermore unto him, Put now thine hand into thy bosom. And he put his hand into his bosom: and when he took it out, behold, his hand was leprous as snow.
    7 And he said, Put thine hand into thy bosom again. And he put his hand into his bosom again; and plucked it out of his bosom, and, behold, it was turned again as his other flesh.

    I think Yah is making it very clear who is in control here. If Yah says it's a serpent, it's a serpent. If He says it's a rod, it's a rod etc.

    This coupled with the meaning of the word 'shem' /name;
    H8034 ~ve shem {shame} ¤ a primitive word from 07760 through the idea of definite and conspicuous position; 1) name 1a) name 1b) reputation, fame, glory 1c) the Name (as designation of God) 1d) memorial, monument

    H7760 suwm {soom} a primitive root; 1) to put, place, set, appoint, make (Qal) to put, set, lay, put or lay upon, lay (violent) hands on, to set, direct, direct toward 1a2a) to extend (compassion) (fig) 1a3) to set, ordain, establish,
    found, appoint, constitute, make, determine, fix, to set, station, put, set in place, plant, fix, to make, make for, transform into, constitute, fashion, work, bring to pass, appoint, give (Hiphil) to set or make for a sign (Hophal) to be set

    Not to mention "in the beginning was the word.... and
    NOTHING WAS MADE, THAT WASN'T MADE BY HIM. ya know?

    And > "By what POWER or by what "Name" have ye done this" *(acts 4)

    See what I mean?

    But your right... it seems they are using "authority" as in > I. so it would be better to translate it as "I". as they have done. (smile)

    Love,
    d'
    "At that day
    shall a man look to his Maker,
    and his eyes shall have respect
    to the Holy One of Israel."
    Isaiah 17:7

  5. #5
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    Shalom sister DeAnna,

    Well, I must apologize for not doing my homework a little more thoroughly before addressing your original post(s). I took exception to the fact that you wanted to translate the exact same word, used twice in the same sentence, as two different words. I would expect that it's possible to do so, but it just didn't sit well with me in this case. Further, I haven't experienced the aleph at the beginning of a word to mean "authority" or the dalet to mean "away from, etc." (I am aware, however, of your other prepositions: bet (in), kaf (like), lamed (to), mem (from) --- and hay for "the"). I will get to the purpose of the aleph at the beginning of the two words in question soon.
    Following is a Hebrew rule that you may find of interest: There is no present tense form of the verb "to be" in Hebrew. Take a look in your Strong's under the words "am" and "art." You will see that the majority of the time there is no Hebrew word noted; it is simply assumed.
    Ex 3:14 is an exception --- H1961, the verb "to be" or "to exist" is in the verse. That brings us to another Hebrew rule-of-thumb that I've observed: An aleph at the beginning of a verb indicates future tense, first-person, singular (e.g. I will {verb}.). The word translated "I am" in the sentence should really be translated "I will be."
    Another point I would like to make is that H834 is translated MANY TIMES as "who." Just take a look at "who" in the Strong's.
    Soooo . . . I would like to revise my earlier comment and say that the three words could be translated: "I will be who I will be."
    There is another word that one could use for H834, and that is "what." I believe that the words could also be translated: "I will be what I will be." How's that for not being limited?
    I looked the verse up in the Pentateuch & Haftorahs, and it seems to indicate the latter as their preferred literal meaning.

    May Yah bless you and yours,
    hyssop

  6. #6
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    Shalom Hyssop,

    I am so excited about your new Hebrew thread!

    You point out to me >
    >> I took exception to the fact that you wanted to translate the exact same word, used twice in the same sentence, as two different words. I would expect that it's possible to do so, but it just didn't sit well with me in this case. <<

    I didn't mean to do that. I don't think you should translate the same word with their two different meanings. I certainly think I should pick one.
    (smile)
    I was just trying to show forth that everything I looked up concerning;
    "AHYH ASHR AHYH" and YHWH and "Shem" (Name) that it seemed to "Me" That it was all indicating that Yah had/has and will always have; control.
    And I am truly, completely convinced that "Name" means authority/power.
    Not only due to the meaning of "shem" itself, but also due to the scriptures themselves.

    You show me > . I would like to revise my earlier comment and say that the three words could be translated:
    "I will be who I will be."
    There is another word that one could use for H834, and that is "what." I believe that the words could also be translated: "I will be what I will be." How's that for not being limited? <<

    I think that is great! (smile)... I also think it is very important not to "limit" Yah in any way. as you know. (bigger smile)

    May Yah bless you Hyssop, May Yah bless all of you!

    Love,
    d'
    "At that day
    shall a man look to his Maker,
    and his eyes shall have respect
    to the Holy One of Israel."
    Isaiah 17:7

  7. #7
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    ISRAEL

    sound: ish = MAN
    sound: ra = KING
    sound: EL = GOD

    GOD + KING + MAN = ONE

    WE willl be ONE!!!
    It is completed!!!
    The BODY of MESSIAH Ministry

    I did not CREATE YOU for a certain time.
    I CREATED YOU for ETERNITY.
    I CREATED YOU for ME.
    That is why I SAVED YOU.
    For ME.

    YOUR HUSBAND,
    YHSHWH

  8. #8
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    israelthebride,

    Shalom and welcome to the forum!

    I'm having trouble following your interpretation of the word, Israel:

    I can see "el" = g_d = lea.

    I think that it might be a bit of a stretch to say that the first part of Israel, lea'r.fiy, yeece = fiy, means man = eesh = vyia.

    But I can find no Hebraic basis for ra = king.

    Hebraically, ra = evil, wicked = [;r, and king = melech = %,l,m

    Am I missing something?
    hyssop

  9. #9
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    Question hyssop

    man and ISRAEL both begin with the "yod" giving them the "y" sound.
    man=y'ish woman=y'isha
    ISRAEL=y'ish-ra-el

    "RA" is a prefix WE use to mean "high": 1. In "ramah" meaning the "highest" 2. "ramot" meaning "highest place" 3. "ra'am" meaning "highest people"
    So in ISRAEL, WE translate "RAEL" as the "highest in the LORD"; in turn a "KING".

    "EL" to US is always OUR LORD GOD Y'SHUA!!!!!!!

    WE are ONE!!!
    The BODY of MESSIAH Ministry

    I did not CREATE YOU for a certain time.
    I CREATED YOU for ETERNITY.
    I CREATED YOU for ME.
    That is why I SAVED YOU.
    For ME.

    YOUR HUSBAND,
    YHSHWH

  10. #10
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    Shalom, israelthebride:

    In Genesis 32, it is written how Jacob got the name Israel. Jacob, in verses 24 & 25, wrestled with a being all night long and refused to release his grip until the being blessed him.

    In verse 29, the being with whom Jacob wrestled gave Jacob the name Israel.

    The word Israel is based upon two Hebrew words:
    1) The verb h,r.fiy (root letters: hrf), meaning "he will struggle, contend." The past tense form of the word appears in verse 29 as 'tyir'f, translated in the Pentateuch & Haftorahs as "thou hast striven."
    2) The noun lea, meaning "G_d"

    According to my Strong's Concordance, the Hebrew word for Israel (H3479) means "he struggles with God [El]" In my opinion, it is more literally translated "he will struggle."

    Unless I am mistaken, the first letter of the word for man (Strong's H376) is not yood but, rather, alef. Further, I don't see a yood in the word for woman (Strong's H802). The third letter of the word for man is shin (pronounced "SH") and differs from the second letter, sin (pronounced "S"), in Israel.

    I believe, in the context of the story in Genesis (and a more straightforward interpretation of the Hebrew letters in the word), that the word "Israel" is based on the verb "to struggle" and not the two words for "man and high/king."

    Just as you, I believe that our destiny is to be one with our creator. I just don't think that there's a sound Hebraic argument for interpretting the word Israel as you've done. (Just my opinion . . . I could be wrong)

    May Yah bless you and yours,
    hyssop

  11. #11
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    Shalom Hyssop and Bride,

    Yah be with you.

    As we know... different Hebrew letters often have the same english sound. But that different "letter" can mean an entirely different word. This is certainly so in "Ra".
    Keep in mind that the "ra" in the name israel is "r,aleph", not
    "r, ayin". Though on down I included both.

    Just for sake of understanding: "a" = "aleph". and "ay" = "ayin"

    Genesis 32:28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou "power" WITH > "God" and with men, and hast "prevailed".

    Israel: >> (y,sh,r,a,l) H3478 laer'f.yI Yisra'el {yis-raw-ale'} ¤
    from 08280 and 0410; n pr m ¤ Israel = "God prevails"

    Please bare with me, look what "Jacob" went "from" and "to". >

    Jacob: > (y,ay,q,b) H3290 bqo[]y: Ya`aqob {yah-ak-obe'} ¤ from 06117;; n pr m ¤
    Jacob = "heel holder" or "supplanter"

    (ay,q,b) H6117 bq;[' `aqab ¤ a primitive root; v ¤ 1) to supplant, circumvent, take by the heel, follow at the heel, assail insidiously, overreach (Piel) to hold back

    And "Jacob" > becomes: >> "Israel".

    Israel: >> (y,sh,r,a,l) H3478 laer'f.yI Yisra'el {yis-raw-ale'} ¤
    from 08280 and 0410; n pr m ¤ Israel = "God prevails"

    from >
    (sh,r,h) H8280 hr'f' sarah {saw-raw'} ¤ a primitive root; v
    ¤ 1) contend, have power, contend with, persist, exert oneself, persevere

    (sh,r,h) H8281 hr'v' sharah {shaw-raw'} ¤ a primitive root; v
    1) to let loose, free (Qal) to let loose (Piel) to set free


    (a,l) H410 lae 'el {ale} ¤ shortened from 0352; 1) god, god-like one, mighty one 2) mighty things in nature 3) strength, power

    thus "Israel" =
    "The Mighty One persists" or "prevails". or "sets free".

    one can "break it down" many ways:

    (y,sh)
    H3426 vyE yesh {yaysh} ¤ perhaps from an unused root meaning to stand out, or exist; subst. 1) being, existence, substance, there is or are 1a) substance
    1b) existence 1c) there is or are

    "Ra" (I only listed the "primitive roots". there are other "ra's" but they all "came from" one of the primitive roots below.

    r,a,h: H7200 ha'r' ra'ah {raw-aw'} ¤ a primitive root; ¤ 1) to see, look at, inspect, perceive, consider (Qal) have vision, regard, look after, see after, learn about, observe, watch, look upon, look out, find out, discern, distinguish

    (I think the above falls in line with "prevails" or "persists"/ "perserveres".)

    r,h,h: H7297 hh'r' rahah {raw-haw'} ¤ a primitive root;
    ¤ 1) (Qal) to fear 1a) meaning dubious

    (r,ay,ay) H7489 [[;r' ra`a` {raw-ah'} ¤ a primitive root; v 1) to be bad, be evil (Qal) to be displeasing, to be sad, to be injurious, be evil, to be wicked, be evil (ethically) 2) to break, shatter (Qal) broken (participle), to be broken and there is also

    another "primitive root" "r,ay,h" (raah) >

    (r,ay,h) H7462 h['r' ra`ah {raw-aw'} ¤ a primitive root; v ¤ 1) to pasture, tend, graze, feed (Qal) to shepherd, of ruler, teacher (fig), of people as flock (fig), Israel as flock (fig) (Hiphil) shepherd, shepherdess 2) to associate with, be a friend of (meaning probable) (Qal) to associate with
    (Hithpael) to be companions 3) (Piel) to be a special friend

    "El":
    H410 lae 'el {ale} ¤ shortened from 0352; n m ¤ 1) god, god-like one, mighty one, mighty men, men of rank, mighty heroes, angels, god, false god, (demons, imaginations) God, the one true God, Jehovah 2) mighty things in nature 3) strength, power

    And its always a good idea to go by scripture as well. (smile)

    "Thus saith Yah that made thee, and formed thee from the womb,
    which will help thee; Fear not, O Jacob (heel holder), my servant; and thou, Jesurun (upright one), whom I have chosen.3 For I will pour water upon him that is thirsty, and floods upon the dry ground: I will pour my spirit upon thy seed, and my blessing upon thine offspring:4 And they shall spring up as among the grass, as willows by the water courses.5 One shall say, I am Yahs; and another shall call himself by the name of Jacob; and another shall subscribe with his hand unto Yah, and surname himself by the name of Israel. (Yah prevails)" Isaiah 44:2

    So in this respect (breakdown), it would appear to basically mean;
    "The mighty one is a shepherd/friend to that which exists". or "The power of G-d prevails". (just as the scripture said)

    We all are or have been "Jacob" (heel holder). We have all been of the mind that we "hold our own walk in our hand". But later, when Yah "reveals" HIMSELF to "Jacob" (us) and "blesses" Jacob. "Jacob" or "heel holder" > becomes "Yah prevails".
    For truly we are all in the "hand of Yah". Even our "walk". Let us pray, that He causes our walk to glorify Him.
    That we may be glorified with "His own self".

    Love,
    d'
    "At that day
    shall a man look to his Maker,
    and his eyes shall have respect
    to the Holy One of Israel."
    Isaiah 17:7

  12. #12
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    d',

    The reason I brought up the word rah (r, ayin) is that it is the only Hebrew word for rah that I could find. I certainly do not think that it has any tie to the word Israel.

    I really don't want to be argumentative, but I must respectfully disagree with your interpretation of the word Israel to mean "Yah prevails." I think that we can all agree that, in the end, Yah will prevail.

    However, in the context of Jacob receiving his new name, the being with whom he struggled said:
    (Gen 32:28 NIV) Then the man said, "Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel, because you have struggled with God and with men and have overcome."
    What sense does it make that Jacob's name be changed to "Yah prevails"? The Torah states that Jacob prevailed.
    (Gen 32:28 NASB) And he said, "Your name shall no longer be Jacob, but Israel; for you have striven with God and with men and have prevailed."
    I will ask my Hebrew teacher this weekend the possible/probable translations of the word.

    Love,
    hyssop

  13. #13
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    Shalom Hyssop,

    Yah be with you brother.

    quote:
    >>"I really don't want to be argumentative, but I must respectfully disagree with your interpretation of the word Israel to mean "Yah prevails." <<

    Thats okay Hyssop, but it is not "my" interpertation.
    It is strongs # 3478 that says "Israel = God Prevails"
    And the BDB says the same thing.

    They say the word is "from" # 8280 and 410 (el)

    from > 8280
    (sh,r,h) hr'f' sarah {saw-raw'} ¤ a primitive root; v
    ¤ 1) contend, have power, contend with, persist, exert oneself, persevere

    KJV: Genesis 32:28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou Power WITH > "God" and with men, and hast "prevailed".

    I realize your bible says "hast striven with God" (NASB)
    and mine says; "hast Power with God". (KJV)

    it does seem to "change" it's connotation.

    I see the word in question is strongs # > 8280 hr'f' (sh,r,h)
    1) contend, have power, contend with, persist, exert oneself,
    persevere 1a) (Qal) to persevere, contend with

    I looked up all the versions I have and "most" (6) of them do translate the word in question as: striven, wrestled or struggled.
    These versions are; ASV, RSV, NRS, NKJ, DBY, BBE
    Plus the two you showed: NIV & NASB. (8 total)

    The ones that translate "power" are 5: KJV, WEB, RWB, YLT & LXE.

    So... I looked at the "Hebrew scripture" itself. and well... I'm just not "good enough" > YET. (smile)
    But I did find it interesting that the LXE" Translate the scripture >

    LXE Genesis 32:28 And he said to him, Thy name shall no longer be called Jacob, but Israel shall be thy name; for thou hast prevailed "with" God, and shalt be mighty with men.

    Now some can translate the word "with" as "against".

    Its hard to believe though that one could prevail "against" G-d. ya know?

    I only broke the word down in other ways (as I saw "possible")because many people do not agree with Stongs. But it is true that the BDB says the same thing. > "Israel = God Prevails".

    But I would still be very interested in what your teacher has to say. so please do ask him and let us know.

    Personally though Hyssop, I do not think anyone can "prevail" or "ovecome" without Yah. So if one can only "prevail" WITH Yah, then it would seem that Yah prevails. see what I mean?

    Yah bless you Hyssop.

    Love
    d'
    "At that day
    shall a man look to his Maker,
    and his eyes shall have respect
    to the Holy One of Israel."
    Isaiah 17:7

  14. #14
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    Shalom d',

    I looked up the word "Israel" in two versions of Strong's that I have: the older version defines H3478 "he will rule as G_d," and the newer version defines H3478 "he struggles with G_d [El]."
    They both list H8280 as one of the two words from which Israel is derived: the older version defines H8280 "to prevail," and the newer version defines H8280 "to struggle, contend."
    There are several other words translated prevail, prevailed, prevailest, prevaileth, etc. in the Hebrew scriptures and none of them use H8280.
    There is only one other KJV reference to the word "struggled" in the Hebrew scriptures, and that is Genesis 25:22 (the story of Jacob struggling with Esau in the womb) but it does not use H8280.
    As far as my Hebrew teacher is concerned, H8280 does not mean "prevail" but, rather, "struggle, contend."
    I think that looking at the context of the word's use might help us determine its meaning. Let's first look at the story of Jacob receiving his new name:
    (Gen 32:24 KJV) And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day. (25) And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him. (26) And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me. (27) And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob. (28) And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with G_d and with men, and hast prevailed.
    The single Hebrew word translated in the KJV "as a prince hast thou power" is 'tyir'f (root letters: hrf). If this word means "prevail," then the sentence would be translated: "(28) And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for thou hast prevailed with G_d and with men, and hast prevailed." What sense does that make?

    If we read Hosea:
    (Hosea 12:3 KJV) He took his brother by the heel in the womb, and by his strength he had power with G_d: (4) Yea, he had power over the angel, and prevailed: he wept, and made supplication unto him: he found him in Bethel, and there he spake with us;
    The word translated "he had power" is h'r'f (root letters: hrf). It is important to note the next Hebrew word, t,a. This word is called the sign of the accusative. What this means is that the word Elohim is the direct object of the sentence--action was taken by Jacob upon Elohim (not the other way around). Notice that earlier in the same sentence t,a preceeds his brother; that is because Jacob's brother is the direct object of Jacob's grasping him by the heel. Jacob fought the angel (hence, the particle indicating the direct object).
    In the context of both Genesis and Hosea, it looks to me that the literal meaning of the word "Israel" should be translated "He will struggle/contend with El." Notice that the "with" is implied; but, this translation parallels the context in which Jacob's name was changed.
    Most literally, Israel, could be translated "El will struggle/contend." I'm not sure if that is relevant here.

    With love in Yah's name,
    hyssop

  15. #15
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    I AM WHAT I AM

    Greetings,

    I was very moved by reading your discussion in this thread. I have been on the same path when it comes to who is in control of the future and how it relates to us. I wanted to add a small comment to your thread.

    These are my thoughts on the subject.

    Both are revelations of YHVH. One is a clear and consise expression of His Power, and another is an exhibition of His authority. He IS Authority, in relation to the man Jacob, and Jacob can not wrestle with the Almighty, nor can YAH be seen by mortal man. Yet, after Jacob took the name given to him by the Eloheem, those who came into contact with him were revealed through His Life YHVH, and ultimately through a people known as Isreal. So in the name of Isreal YHVH is revealed, as though the nation of Isreal.

    I AM that I AM, and where Yahshua said I AM, have been so misused and misquoted. By Christians where I am from.

    I see that there are many and varied levels to one word. And they can not strictly be bound to a specific meaning, but must be interpreted through the spirit of the word. That is to say, in the name of "Isreal," in a sense for me is the Revelation of YAH himself. His Power, Authority, Wounders, Works.

    Where Isreal, for me means:

    By YHVH, the Initial governing Authority,....

    ( Found in the essence of the Name itself, which holds all Power and Authority and the stars of the heavens remain in their place

    ...This Authority is displayed and expressed through.

    i.e. The Authority to show YHVH's power through Priests, Kingdom, Works to the world at large...

    (Authority is also a larger word but I dont have time to go into that know.)

    I AM WHAT I AM

    or

    I am HE That Remains and Whose Authority is displayed in Power in What Will Be

    Using DeAnna,definitions, we perceive a definition over several words and not just one word.


    So my point is:



    Our Text is about someone (not thing as an abstract), and not just a story. He is and always will "be". Never is He a "was" or even a become. Even Yahshua became as we become, One with our Creator, and Father.

    I see us as a becoming to "be"... I know tough to say. Oneness is found in HIS and our "being" not just are philosophy about who He says He is.

    Be still and Know that I AM YHVH (Eloheem).

    We are to Be, What He IS. (HOLY) also a larger word but I dont have time to go into that know.


    We (remain) still and this brings us into the place of stopping, or His sabbath.

    I Write a little jumbled, but my thought came out.

    Again,
    Oneness, stopping, sabbath.... is found in I AM. And He reveals Himself to Jacob by changing his name to Isreal. In the name given him, the Authority to do through power all that YAH intended in the promise, can and will BE done. With in the name of Isreal, I can see HIM and Sit and Allow Him to reveal Himself.

    By Stopping all my exhertion and Accepting (by faiths revelation) the Rightstanding given freely to me to be able to REMAIN in Him the (condition of stopping). In HIM or (His Presence), is the status of "BEING HOLY".

    Full of faith and trust in YHVH, to do and to will, all that He intends to, and that He will accomplish .......This is Knowledge


    Peace with you all,

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