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Thread: Incest And Other Illicit Sexual Relationships

  1. #1
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    Post Incest And Other Illicit Sexual Relationships

    Hi Everyone,

    YAHWEH says:
    Lev 18:8
    8 The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father's nakedness. (KJV)
    Paul says:
    1 Cor 5:1-5

    1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
    2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
    3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
    4 In the name of our Sovereign Yahushua Messiah, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Sovereign Yahushua Messiah,
    5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Sovereign Yahushua. (KJV)
    This is serious. Through the experience of Judas, all can readily see what it means to be delivered to Satan:
    John 13:27
    27 And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Yahushua unto him, That thou doest, do quickly. (KJV)
    And what did Satan do with Judas?
    Acts 1:18
    18 Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out. (KJV)
    What I am seeking to make clear on the thread is the spiritual meaning behind our illicit sexual relationships. Every physical sin has a spiritual counterpart. What is so evil about sexual sins that the protection of the Assembly should be removed from those who engage in them?

    In a spiritual sense, what does it mean to uncover the nakedness of my father? How do I uncover my father's nakedness by uncovering the nakedness of his wife? In a spiritual sense, how many Fathers are there, and who are they?

    Sincerely, Spying

  2. #2
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    Smile Wait a minute, Spying...

    I’m sorry I don’t know what you are trying to say here, but Saint Peter, a.k.a. “Satan” is not telling the truth in Acts 1:18. He must be honoring the character of the nickname given to him by Jesus Christ. Matthew is telling us what really happened to Judas. It is believed that Matthew or whoever wrote Matthew was Jew. We do know that Luke was Grecian. He must have misquoted Peter. Anyway, Luke is wrong. I am sure that Peter knew better than that. Judas didn’t buy any field to have a place where to fall headlong. He returned the money back to the Sadducees. Then he went and hanged himself. Who knows where? Nobody! The Sadducees didn’t care to know either. They picked up the coins from Judas and they purchased a field to bury foreigners. All this was taking place during the celebration of the Passover. There is no indication whatsoever that Judas was buried in that field because poor Judas was Jew (i.e. Yahudah. Heb. “Yah-be-Praised”). He was not a foreigner. The field was purchased to bury foreigners. You got to watch those Grecians. They really love to screw the Jews (i.e. Yahudim. Heb. “Yah-be-Praised-ones”). So one of the 2 is not telling the truth. One of the 2 is lying. Luke is known to be very inaccurate in his story telling. I side with Matthew. I think that Matthew is telling the truth.

    Matthew 27:3-7 (NIV) When Judas, who had betrayed him, saw that Jesus was condemned, he was seized with remorse and returned the thirty silver coins to the chief priests and the elders. "I have sinned," he said, "for I have betrayed innocent blood." "What is that to us?" they replied. "That's your responsibility." So Judas threw the money into the temple and left. Then he went away and hanged himself. The chief priests picked up the coins and said, "It is against the law to put this into the treasury, since it is blood money." So they decided to use the money to buy the potter's field as a burial place for foreigners.

  3. #3
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    Hey Lou,
    This is a carry over from the thread "head coverng". As we vered off the subject, so no doubt Spying thought (rightly so) to give it it's own thread.
    Its about how sister and brother or near "kin" are not supposed to "come togeather" and ye Abraham and Sarah were of this union... etc.

    Shalom Spying,

    I've been putting a lot of thought into "mother" due to your post.
    As you know, I've always believed that our "mother" was the "church".
    But... I "wonder" if it is not the "Flesh"/earth. ??

    For the flesh is like an "incabater", like a "mother" is.
    Our "flesh" is made of the "Earth". hence; "mother earth".
    I always thought it "something" that with women the main problem seemed to be "vanity". With men it seems to be "ego".

    You can say to a woman; "now honey, you just don't understand...." and she'll usually say; "well, okay..."
    But say; "honey you're getting fat" and WATCH OUT. (lol)
    On the other hand, you can say to a man;
    "honey you're getting fat" And he'll say... oh, well, i know..
    But say;
    "honey you don't know what you're talking about" and WHOA!

    If you think about it, it does "Line up" with "earth" vs. Yah.

    For we are the bride are we not?
    I kind of think that when we look for salvation or "wholeness" in the flesh, this "may" be, like lying with our fathers wife.
    For surely Yahs "spirit" had to "enter" or "go in unto" the earth to bring forth adam, and all the "life" that comes forth and grows from the "earth".

    So... spiritually, to seek "unity" with the flesh/physical, is NOT good. "Spiritually" it IS good to seek an "intimate relationship" with our "father". But not our "mother".
    "Spiritually" we ARE to "seek" unity amongst our brothers and sisters. For in so doing, we are in union with our "father" IN our brothers and sisters.
    So... "Only" the Fathers "wife" has a "bad" spiritual meaning.

    For nothing is said of Lots daughters going in unto their father while he was drunk. Now anyone can surely see that this was of Yahs hand. For we all know if a man is "too drunk" to "know", he is too drunk to perform.
    And two nights in a row! and they concieved!
    Who but Yah can open a womb and cause it to conceive and bring forth? And yet Lot was "blessed" with the land of "Ar"(meaning "a city"; but from the root; "awaken/incite")

    Deuteronomy 2:8 ......, we turned and passed by the way of the wilderness of Moab(of his father).9 And Yah said unto me, Distress not the Moabites, neither contend with them in battle: for I will not give thee of their land for a possession;
    because I have given Ar unto the children of Lot(covering) for a possession.

    I guess what I'm saying Spying is with "the fathers wife" is the only "incest" that seems bad physically AND spiritually. But none of the others seem bad "spiritually", nor are any of the patriarchs rebuked in any way for these unions.

    I don't mean to be stubborn dear Spying, just sharing things I think, and what goes through my mind.

    But truly, what I keep in mind, when I get "boggled down" on "what is right/good" and what is "wrong/bad"... I concentrate on what Yahshua said about "who" will enter the kingdom and "who" > Won't < written in Mat. 25:33 --

    How those who "fed", "gave to drink", clothed, visited the sick, went unto the prisoners
    etc. entered in the Kingdom, and those that would not, did not.

    That coupled with Isaiah the 58th. chapter on what the true fast is, or the > "fast that Yah has chosen".

    For there IS a "law" that Yah continually tells us we are NOT hearing;

    Zechariah 7:9 Thus speaketh Yah of hosts, saying;
    Execute true judgment, and shew mercy and compassions every man to his brother: 10 And oppress not the widow, nor the fatherless, the stranger, nor the poor; and let NONE of you imagine evil against his brother in your heart.
    11 But they refused to hearken, and pulled away the shoulder, and stopped their ears, that they should not hear.
    12 Yea, they made their hearts as an adamant stone,
    lest they should HEAR THE LAW, and the words which Yah of hosts hath sent in HIS SPIRIT by the "former" > prophets: therefore came a great wrath from the Yah of hosts.

    Zechariah 8:2 Thus saith Yah of hosts; I was jealous for
    Zion("parched place") with great jealousy, and I was jealous for her with great fury.

    (Could "Zion" be the "earth"? Yahs wife? could that be the mystery of Zion? Surely the earth was a "parched place" before Yah breathed his spirit of life into her)

    anyway... moving on.

    Zechariah 8:16 These are the things that ye shall do; Speak ye every man the truth to his neighbour; execute the judgment of truth and peace in your gates:
    17 And let none of you imagine evil in your hearts against his neighbour; and love no false oath: for all these are things that I hate, saith Yah.
    18 And the word of Yah of hosts came unto me, saying,
    19 Thus saith Yah of hosts; The fast of the fourth month, and the fast of the fifth, and the fast of the seventh, and the fast of the tenth, shall be to the house of Judah joy and gladness, and cheerful feasts; therefore love the truth and peace.

    There are many "laws"... >
    "Levitical Law", the "Mosaiac Law", The "Noahchide Law".

    And yet YAH says: That "Judah" is his "law giver". (Yahshua)
    And the law we are not "hearing" is basically "do unto to others as YOU would HAVE done unto you".

    I think "this" is the law He speaks of when he says they do not "walk in MY ways" or in "My law", nor do they turn from their "wickedness". Do you know that quite often when we read "wickedness" in our english version, it is often a hebrew word that means mostly "violence"?

    Yahshua speaks of the "Ten Commandments". And outside of that He always says "The law of Moses". Even Yah kind of does it. >>

    Jeremiah 3:1 "THEY say", If a man put away his wife, and she go from him, and become another man's, shall he return unto her again? shall not that land be greatly polluted? but thou hast played the harlot with many lovers; yet return again to me, saith Yah.

    And yet this is supposed to be one of Yahs laws. ???
    I don't know Spying,
    Yahshua says we must worship Yah in SPIRIT and in TRUTH.
    And knowing the bible like I do, I've noticed how it always "repeats" a thing.
    Two words, one after the other, meaning the same thing.

    example;
    Exodus 34:6 "..... and abundant in "goodness and truth",

    as if they are one and the same. So I look for the "spirit" in all things. What would it mean in the spirit? And to me, that's the "truth".

    But don't get me wrong... I ask Yah daily about things like this.
    I am always in awe at His mysteries. But He Does answer. In His time. As we all here have pretty much discovered. (smile)
    And I pray He opens my eyes to understand that which He would have me to understand.

    I really think we "all" need to ask Yah to make us "Honest" and "a cheerful giver". and I truly believe all other things will "iron out" so to speak.

    may Yah bless you Spying. And your family, and all you love and hold dear.

    Love,
    d'
    "At that day
    shall a man look to his Maker,
    and his eyes shall have respect
    to the Holy One of Israel."
    Isaiah 17:7

  4. #4
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    Incest

    Dear DeAnna

    I am trying to learn, please explain these words in which you have written a message that caught my eye.

    ..."I guess what I'm saying Spying is with "the fathers wife" is the only "incest" that seems bad physically AND spiritually. But none of the others seem bad "spiritually", nor are any of the patriarchs rebuked in any way for these unions.

    I don't mean to be stubborn dear Spying, just sharing things I think, and what goes through my mind."...

    And,...

    "...I think "this" is the law He speaks of when he says they do not "walk in MY ways" or in "My law", nor do they turn from their "wickedness". Do you know that quite often when we read "wickedness" in our english version, it is often a hebrew word that means mostly "violence"?

    P.S. Are we speaking of earthly things that are "unspeakable"?

    Rovivurs

    "Recognizing the impersonality of law, the survivor is to some degree relieved of the personal burden of battle. It is the law, not she, that must prevail."

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    Shalom Rovivurs,

    Yah be with you.

    I'm sorry... I bet this thread really seems strange to most people.
    We should probably take the last few posts from "head covering" and move them to this thread so that people will know what we are talking about.

    Here is what "started" the thread. I had written in the thread "2 witnesses" that I was not of the mind that "Every word" written in the bible was "infalible". Then AntotiYah brought this up under the thread "head covering".
    Then I showed him one of the reasons "why" I said this. And I posted: >>

    "KJV Leviticus 18:9 The nakedness of thy sister, the daughter of thy father, or daughter of thy mother, whether she be born at home, or born abroad, even their nakedness thou shalt not uncover.

    KJV Leviticus 18:11 The nakedness of thy father's wife's daughter, begotten of thy father, she is thy sister, thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.

    KJV Deuteronomy 27:22 Cursed be he that lieth with his sister, the daughter of his father, or the daughter of his mother. And all the people shall say, Amen.

    And Yet: >>>

    Gen. 20:11-12
    And Abraham said, Because I thought, Surely the fear of Elhym is not in this place; and they will slay me for my wife's sake.
    12 And yet indeed she is my sister; she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife.

    So here we have Isaac, the seed through which "ALL nations" are to be blessed, born of this very relationship that Deut. says is "cursed". ??

    Then there is: >>

    KJV 2 Samuel 13:2 And Amnon was so vexed, that he fell sick for his sister Tamar; for she was a virgin; and Amnon thought it hard for him to do any thing to her.

    11 And when she had brought them unto him to eat, he took hold of her, and said unto her, Come lie with me, my sister.

    Take note as to what Tamar says to him:

    13...I pray thee, speak unto the king;for he will not withhold me from thee.

    Notice the "king" is their father David. And she says "He will NOT withhold me from thee". And yet King David LOVED the law of Yah!

    Then there is:

    KJV Leviticus 18:12 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father's sister: she is thy father's near kinswoman

    KJV Leviticus 20:19 And thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy mother's sister, nor of thy father's sister: for he uncovereth his near kin: they shall bear their iniquity.

    And yet:
    KJV Exodus 6:20 And Amram took him Jochebed his father's sister to wife; and she bare him Aaron and Moses: and the years of the life of Amram were an hundred and thirty and seven years.

    KJV Numbers 26:59 And the name of Amram's wife was Jochebed, the daughter of Levi, whom her mother bare to Levi in Egypt: and she bare unto Amram Aaron and Moses, and Miriam their sister.

    Abraham, Sarah, Issac, Moses, Aaron, Merriam... Now these are some pretty KEY people in the bible to "be in" or "born of" such relationships. That are "supposedly" against Yahs law.
    <<<<<

    So... "This" is what started this whole topic. I question either the "validity" of these particular scriptures. (that they were of Yah)... "OR", I thought that maybe "uncovering their nakedness" was telling others about their "sin", or "guilt". For "naked" is often symbolic of "shame" or sin, in scripture.
    Infact in the very hebrew word for "naked(ness)" also means "shame".

    Please don't get me wrong. I BELIEVE in the Bible. I Believe people wrote as they were moved by the spirit. But i do know from experience, that we all go through "levels" of understanding. For even David said; >>

    > Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; "mine ears" hast >> "thou opened": burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not "required." << KJV Psa 40:6

    Now we know that David served Yah with a "pure heart" ALL of his days. But during "these days" from here to there, Davids "ears" still had to be "opened".

    Even the diciples heard Steven preach, and "perceived" that he had the "spirit", so they took him aside and "taught him more perfectly". So Steven was preaching "something" that needed a bit more understanding. But he obviously "had the spirit".

    Now, physically in the bible it seems to be condemned that a brother and sister, or father and daugter are not to have an "intimate" relationship. But "spiritually" this is exactly what we want. We MUST have an "intimate relationship" with our Heavenly Father in order to result in "offspring" ie; His word in us.
    And "spirituall" we "are" to seek a "unity" with our brothers and sisters as well. So... I was saying that only with our Fathers "wife" (weather that be flesh/earth/physica, or the "church", that "gave birth" to our faith, i'm still searching.
    But either way, we do not want to have an intimate relationship with the "physical" or our "church", we want the intimacy to be with Yah, that HE may bring forth. see? Sooo....

    all "incestual" relationships seem a "good" thing in the spirit except "son" and "mother". Even Yahshua touched on that.

    As far as my saying I think "THIS" is the law that Yah speaks of when he says; "but they would not walk in my ways, laws, statutes etc.
    I am referring to the Law that Yah speaks of in Zechariah 7 & 8 chapt.s, and in Isaiah 58, and what Yahshua taught (do unto others...) and basically what the Ten commanments actually "do" if we "Keep them". We don't lie, steal, cheat others, and we are not to "worship" or give credit too... any other, then Yah.
    And "THIS LAW" is >

    "Speak truth everyone of you to their neighbor, oppress not, love mercy and peace, let NONE of you imagine evil in their heart against their neighbor... etc. basically "do unto others...." is HIS "LAW" and His "ways" and "statutes" (which this word statute actually means closer to "what Yah observes or does) But this is the law that Yah says we are not "hearing".

    We are hearing "thou shalt not", and "don't eat pork", and "Keep the feasts", and ceremonial washing etc. But we are not hearing HIS LAW not to oppress, or be violent, nor to "take care of" the fatherless (spiritually; those without faith in their heavenly father are "Fatherless".), widows (those that have lost faith) poor (those that are poor in strength, knowledge, understanding, mercy, hope, faith etc).

    So yes, if someone is physically hungry, give them physical food. But if someone is beligerent or angry, or has a problem stealing, lying etc. they too are "poor" and need tending too.
    But I lean to the "spirit law", because one can "physically" clothe, and their garment will wear out, or physical "food" is temperary. But spiritually these things will in the end cause them to have the physical they need, due to them turning to Yah. see what I mean?

    Well, I do tend to go on and on. I hope I answered your questions. If I didn't... "will you please repeat the question?" (smile)

    May Yah bless you Rovivurs. And welcome to the forum. It is good for our faith and understandings to be "challanged". We learn and grow this way. I love it when Spying and I do this. For he truly challanges my understanding and causes me to seek and search, pray, ask, etc. without being hurtful or spiteful. And though we challange eachother, we are definately in unity of seeking the spirit and truth and both of our hope is in Yah causing us to hear and obey His Word.

    love,
    d'
    "At that day
    shall a man look to his Maker,
    and his eyes shall have respect
    to the Holy One of Israel."
    Isaiah 17:7

  6. #6
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    Exclamation The Price Of A Dog!

    Hi Stranger,

    You have heard me say may times that perspective is very important. One should always keep one's mind open to the possibility that there exists an alternate way to view any issue. Take this statement:
    John 13:27
    27 And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Yahushua unto him, That thou doest, do quickly. (KJV)
    To whom did Messiah give this directive, Satan or Judas? It is possible that Messiah was speaking to Satan, is it not?

    I think that you are aware that I believe that Judas through Messiah is actually representative or symbolic of the scapegoat which is hurled from the precipice on the Day of Atonement. This goat was led into the wilderness and thrown from a cliff by a fit or ready man so that this goat could not find its way back to Israel. Thus, it is possible that Messiah was actually speaking to Satan with his directive and saying to him in so many words: Take this man and kill him as fast as you can, Satan. He no longer has my protection.

    In like manner both Luke and Matthew may be looking at or viewing the same event from different perspectives.

    Judas was guilty of unfaithfulness to Messiah. What was the nature of his unfaithfulness? It is not written?
    Deut 23:18
    18 Thou shalt not bring the hire of a whore, or the price of a dog, into the house of (the) YAHWEH thy ELOHIM for any vow: for even both these are abomination unto (the) YAHWEH thy ELOHIM. (KJV)
    Did Judas play the whore? How about a dog? How do you think, Stranger, that Satan enters into any of us? How does he place his seed in us? It is possible that in Messiah's eyes Judas was both whore and dog. This may very well have been Messiah's perspective on Judas:
    Since you have played the whore with the Jewish authorities, I will now let you play the dog with their father.
    So, thirty pieces of silver appears to be the price of both whore and dog. This price cannot be brought into the Temple or dwelling of YAH in payment of any vow.

    We are one with whomever we enter into intimate sexual relationships. So, Judas did buy the potter's field with the silver as Matthew does say. On the other hand, Judas did purchase the same field with his own blood as Peter does say (Bursting open and bleeding shows you the nature of Judas' relationship with Satan). Either way Judas did buy the field of perverseness. Because of his desire for strange relationships, Judas himself and his price has no place in the house. All of us would be well advised to not follow in his footsteps.

    Sincerely, Spying

  7. #7
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    DeAnna

    For the words that you so generously have put before me, I thank you.

    You say at the beginning "I'm sorry". No need for such apologies, I do not think this is "strange". I believe most feel strange for that in which they fear.

    I must tell you that I am here to learn, not to teach--per se.

    In your last writing, I sensed a bit of confusion. I encourage you to seek understanding of that which challenges you so.

    I look forward to gaining knowledge, if you look forward to sharing.

    Rovivrus
    "Recognizing the impersonality of law, the survivor is to some degree relieved of the personal burden of battle. It is the law, not she, that must prevail."

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    Spying,

    I was only trying to get the record straight. There are 2 clear contradictory reports about the purchase of a field. One is spiritual, and the other, factual. What spiritual significance can possibly have the purchase of a field to fall headlong? It doesn’t make sense. It takes time to buy a field. It was the celebration of Passover. There are too many make believe statements in here. I didn't read of any blood gushing out of Yah-be-Praised. Matthew says that he simply hanged himself. Luke is using a lot of imagination to add a lot of contradictory details to that event. He wasnp;t even present at the Upper Room to find out so many details. Now that you are saying that there is some spiritualization to do I better retreat, but the record bears witness to the fact that there is a contradiction. Christianity takes that as a precedent to act deceitfully in other matters. So be careful. There is nothing that we can do against the truth.

  9. #9
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    Angry Satan And Eve!

    Hi DeAnna,

    It is written concerning Adam:
    Luke 3:38
    38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of ELOHIM. (KJV)
    If Adam was consider a son, then surely Eve would be considered a daughter of ELOHIM in that she was taken from HIS son.

    The Tzaddikim believe that the original state of Adam and Eve before the fall was one of innocence. Adam and Eve were flesh with all the pulls and inclinations of flesh, but they were innocent. Their innocence is evidenced by the fact that they were unaware of their nakedness. Nakedness implies imperfection or lack.

    Into this picture of innocent imperfection, Satan did come. In what capacity? At the very least, we could say that Satan was an adult, could we not? And what did Satan take upon himself to do? He immediately sought to exert his power and control over Eve, did he not? Was Eve an adult? According to physical development, yes, but according to experience, she was childlike. She was a babe with no knowledge of good and evil. Satan used her lack of knowledge, her innocence to manipulate Eve to accomplish his will. This is what child molesters always accomplish. They take what belongs in the adult world, and they introduce it to children for their own self gratification. Children have a natural curiosity about themselves. Molesters and abusers use this curiosity to their full advantage to move the child along in the direction which they desire.

    Am I stating here that Eve had a physical sexual encounter with Satan? No, I am not! What Eve experienced with Satan was a spiritual sexual encounter that in some fashion was self gratifying to Satan. He got a kick out of what he was doing. All child molesters know exactly what Satan did to Eve. All that have been molested know exactly what Eve experienced. As a child, I was molested so I do know.

    It is written:
    Gen 3:1
    1 Now the serpent was more naked than any beast of the field which (the) YAHWEH ELOHIM had made.....
    Do you think that Satan exposed this nakedness to Eve? What I am working to determine here through your help and the help of others is the exact nature of spiritual nakedness? I think that we need to know for the sake of our own cleansing and perfection!

    Sincerely, Spying

  10. #10
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    Dear Spying,

    AMEN!!


    "Do you think that Satan exposed this nakedness to Eve? What I am working to determine here through your help and the help of others is the exact nature of spiritual nakedness? I think that we need to know for the sake of our own cleansing and perfection!

    Sincerely, Spying"

    Could it not be that we conceal our spiritual nakedness (as we are all spiritually naked) with our physical clothing. When one removes his/her own clothing, or the clothing of others, he or she exposes their spiritual nakedness for all to see. Children are not of the mind to comprehend such spiritual nakedness. This I know for sure.

    To take a child's innocence is to steal from YAH.
    Yes?

    Rovivrus
    "Recognizing the impersonality of law, the survivor is to some degree relieved of the personal burden of battle. It is the law, not she, that must prevail."

  11. #11
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    Shalom Rovivrus,

    Thank you for your kind response. And Yah be with you friend.

    You share with me >
    "I must tell you that I am here to learn, not to teach--per se."

    In your last writing, I sensed a bit of confusion. I encourage you to seek understanding of that which challenges you so.

    I look forward to gaining knowledge, if you look forward to sharing. " <<

    Psalm 81:10 I am the Yah thy G-d (El, ruler, judge)
    which brought thee out of the land of Egypt:
    open thy mouth wide, and I will fill it.

    Truly none of us are the "teacher", but Yah. I, like you, do so look forward to gaining knowledge. And love, and understanding, and faith, and, and, and, (smile). And O' I do so look forward to sharing it! (bigger smile)

    Thank you for your encouragment, I do find myself in babylon(confusion) now and then. And I do so try to flee it! (lol) And as I learn over and over, the only way to flee it, is to talk (turn) to Yah and ask, once again, to be led out of babylon.
    So...
    I was confused on who our mother was/is. I thought if I could know who our mother was, then I could know who Yahs' wife is.
    The Mother is earth/flesh/Israel/us as a "church"/doctrine...
    but we are not his wife... yet.
    For of the earth we were brought forth, and of the earth we are, and our whoredoms are all of our many false doctrines that we believed and put forth.

    Hosea 2:1 Say ye unto your brethren, Ammi(nation/people); and to your sisters, Ruhamah(love/mercy)2 Plead with your mother, plead: for she is not my wife, neither am I her husband: let her therefore put away her whoredoms out of her sight, and her adulteries from between her breasts;

    Hosea 2:5 For their mother hath played the harlot: she that conceived them hath done shamefully: for she said, I will go after my lovers, that give me my bread and my water, my wool and my flax, mine oil and my drink.

    8 For she did not know that I gave her corn, and wine, and oil, and multiplied her silver and gold, which they prepared for Baal.
    9 Therefore will I return, and take away my corn in the time thereof, and my wine in the season thereof, and will recover my wool and my flax given to cover her nakedness.
    10 And now will I discover her lewdness in the sight of her lovers, and none shall deliver her out of mine hand.
    11 I will also cause all her mirth to cease, her feast days, her new moons, and her sabbaths, and all her solemn feasts.
    12 And I will destroy her vines and her fig trees, whereof she hath said, These are my rewards that my lovers have given me: and I will make them a forest, and the beasts of the field shall eat them.
    13 And I will visit upon her the days of Baalim, wherein she burned incense to them, and she decked herself with her earrings and her jewels, and she went after her lovers, and forgat me, saith Yah.14 Therefore, behold, I will allure her, and bring her into the wilderness, and speak comfortably unto her.
    15 And I will give her her vineyards from thence, and the valley of Achor for a door of hope: and she shall sing there, as in the days of her youth, and as in the day when she came up out of the land of Egypt.

    16 And it shall be at that day, saith Yah, that thou shalt call me Ishi(my husband); and shalt call me no more Baali(my Lord)
    17 For I will take away the names of Baalim out of her mouth, and they shall no more be remembered by their name.
    18 And in that day will I make a covenant for them with the beasts of the field, and with the fowls of heaven, and with the creeping things of the ground: and I will break the bow and the sword and the battle out of the earth, and will make them to lie down safely.
    19 And I will betroth thee unto me for ever; yea, I will betroth thee unto me in righteousness, and in judgment, and in lovingkindness, and in mercies.

    As a "bride" I just can't wait for the wedding. (smile)
    When Yah makes an "honest" woman out of us. (grin).

    Which brings us to the words; "adultery" and "fornication".
    That I do desire to share about, Yah willing.

    But not until I respond to my dear brother Spyings wonderful post.. (smile)

    But rightnow it is midnight, and I can't stop yawning. And I fear if I force myself to continue, I shall just get down right slap happy.
    lol.

    Yah bless you friend, and all those you hold dear.
    love,
    d'
    "At that day
    shall a man look to his Maker,
    and his eyes shall have respect
    to the Holy One of Israel."
    Isaiah 17:7

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Ellisville, MO
    Posts
    2,899

    Post Revivus!

    Hi Rovivrus,

    Welcome to the Lo Ammi Forum. When I consider your pseudonym, the image I receive is not Rovivrus; rather, it is Revivus. When I search the scriptures for that word, this is what I find:
    Ps 85:5-6
    5 Wilt thou be angry with us for ever? wilt thou draw out thine anger to all generations?
    6 Wilt thou not revive us again: that thy people may rejoice in thee? (KJV)

    Hosea 6:1-3
    1 Come, and let us return unto (the) YAHWEH: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.
    2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.
    3 Then shall we know, if we follow on to know (the) YAHWEH: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth. (KJV)
    So, you are here for revival.

    What father or mother would not zealously guard the innocence of their children? So, also does YAH guard our innocence. Woe to him who usurps the authority of YAH and in this regard betrays the innocence of YAH'S children. YAH will destroy him (Hebrews 2:14).

    On the other hand, what father or mother desires perpetual ignorance for their children? YAH desires that we experience good and evil, and then with opened eyes, HE desires that we choose the good. This is the innocence that HE desires for us. This is the revival of YAH.

    It is wholly true that we are all spiritually naked. As the scripture does say:
    Rev 3:17
    17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:(KJV)
    Even so, this spiritual nakedness is not our physical nakedness; otherwise, it would be a simple matter of going to K-Mart to cover our spiritual nakedness. It is also true that when we betray the innocence of another through molestation that we also expose our spiritual nakedness to those who have no capacity to comprehend the dirty deed. Through this exposure we teach our children to pursue evil, and our children in this pursuit are actually still innocent for they know not what they do. Thus, blossomed spiritual nakedness in my mind is the pursuit of evil with full knowledge of what one is doing.

    I am also learning here about this evil. YAH is our heavenly father and mother. I wonder if YAH has a spiritual nakedness to uncover? I wonder if Satan is that spiritual nakedness? May you be blessed to help us recover. Again, welcome to this forum.

    Sincerely, Spying

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    225
    Shalom dear Spying,

    WOW!

    I had started answering your post, then "I got mail" (lol)
    So I came a running to brake bread with you, and WOAH.
    Yah has truly prepared a banquet for us.

    Yah sure does bless you with wonderful understandings Spying.
    I am so excited about what has come forth.

    I do believe Yah has answered!

    And what you wrote to Lou... How Yahshua was talking to Satan.
    HalelluYah brother!

    You "asked" didn't you. (big smile)

    I asked to come "out of confusion" concerning "His wife". But come to think of it, didn't come out and ask "who" she was. lol.
    And thought that Ezekiel was my "answer".
    But... nope... I do believe it was through you.

    What I'm trying to say is. I believe you are seeing the truth.

    Got any more? (smile)

    May Yah continue to bless you Spying, and all whom you touch.

    Love,
    your sis,
    d'
    "At that day
    shall a man look to his Maker,
    and his eyes shall have respect
    to the Holy One of Israel."
    Isaiah 17:7

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    225
    A quick word to my friend stranger, >

    You ask: > "What spiritual significance can possibly have the purchase of a field to fall headlong? It doesn’t make sense." <

    Because "land" represents us/people Lou. As you know we are made of the earth, but you can also pick this up in Jeremiah 3:1 >

    "They say, If a man put away his wife, and she go from him, and become another man's, shall he return unto her again? shall not that land be greatly polluted? but thou hast played the harlot with many lovers; yet return again to me, saith Yah."

    In the LXE Version
    (which I do not always agree with, but still compare)

    LXE Jeremiah 3:1 If a man put away his wife, and she depart from him, and become another man's, shall she return to him any more at all? shall not that woman be utterly defiled? ye thou hast gone a-whoring with many shepherds, and hast returned to me, saith Yah.

    The "fruits" of the land is the words/doctrine/truth/lies that proceed forth from us. We often (as you once did in the Jesus/you only need "forgiveness" as opposed to "deliverance" doctrine) This is a "field" that many have "purchased" or "bought" or "believed". Judaism as well. Or any religion that puts the "out come" in our hand, and not in Yahs hand, or thinks they can serve both and put their trust in; money/material/flesh.

    Then we have the guy that asked the diciples if He could "buy" Yahs power with "money/material/flesh". And they rebuked him. But He too repented.
    (I think; if memory serves.)

    Matthew 27:3 Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the hief priests and elders,
    4 Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that.
    5 And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.

    Zechariah 11:12 And I said unto them, If ye think good, give me my price; and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of silver.
    13 And Yah said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was prised at of them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of Yah.

    (Notice how they gave "Judas" Yahshuas price, and not to Yahshua? But we are all "in" Yahshua, even Judas.)

    14 Then I cut asunder mine other staff, even Bands, that I might break the brotherhood between Judah and Israel.

    I think "Israel" (Jacob) is liken unto Christianity corrupted by the Whore/ Catholic church. And "judah" is liken unto Judiasm corupted by the High Priests of the levitical priesthood.
    (those that depend on keeping the physical law to gain a righteous spirit.)

    16 For, lo, I will raise up a shepherd in the land, which shall not visit those that be cut off, neither shall seek the young one, nor heal that that is broken, nor feed that that standeth still: but he shall eat the flesh of the fat, and tear their claws in pieces.

    (Is this not exactly what the churches/doctrines of today have done?)

    17 Woe to the idol shepherd that leaveth the flock! the sword shall be upon his arm, and upon his right eye: his arm shall be clean dried up, and his right eye shall be utterly darkened.

    (Judas went to the priests/shepherds) >>
    4 Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that.

    See? I see this as a testimony unto the "bad shepherds" more then it is Judas. For Judas "repented".
    And Yahshua had already said;
    "every word spoken against the son of man may be forgiven..."
    THEN Judas went and "willingly died", as we all must do.

    I know it says; "cursed is he who hangeth on a tree", but we are "all trees", and all of us are "cursed" in the flesh. Especially if we "hang" on it, or "hang on to it". and never get passed the physical. Judas had to of gotten "passed" the phyisical/flesh, at some point or he would not have repented, and been so sorry and greived.

    Yahshua never alluded to Judas being condemned to eternal damnation. Thats the only thing that Spying looses me on; "satan destroy this man quickly, he no longer has my protection" I don't neccessarily agree with. When the diciples asked, his answer was; "what is it to thee?". Why?
    Because we are not to imagine evil against our neighbor.

    You > "It takes time to buy a field."

    Not then like it does now... but even "now", if you have "MONEY", and judas was the "purse bearer"...

    >> "It was the celebration of Passover. There are too many make believe statements in here."<<

    Matthew 26:2 Ye know that after two days is the feast of the passover, and the Son of man is betrayed to be crucified.

    5 But they said, Not on the feast day, lest there be an uproar among the people.

    14 Then one of the twelve, called Judas Iscariot, went unto the chief priests, 15 And said unto them, What will ye give me, and I will deliver him unto you? And they covenanted with him for thirty pieces of silver.

    Is this not what the doctrine of christianity asks? 'What/ how much are you willing to "Give for me to deliver your saviour to you? Anyway... as you can see it was 2 days before the passover when Judas obtained his money.

    16 And from that time he sought opportunity to betray him.

    (or to sell him. I know there are preachers out there with a truly seeking heart, and Want to be a good shepherd. But I know there are also others out there preaching for the money. But because they no not what they preach, they know not what they do. They have even fooled themselves into thinking it's a
    blessing/"gift".)

    Matthew 26:21 And as they did eat, he said, Verily I say unto you, that one of you shall betray me.

    Did not Yah say Judah betrayed him?

    Isaiah 1:1 The vision of Isaiah the son of Amoz, which he saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah. 2 Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth: for Yah hath spoken, I have nourished and brought up children, and they have rebelled against me.

    (still referring to Judah)
    10 Hear the word of Yah, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.
    11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the Yah: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.

    It is because they seek their righteousness through the works of their hands, thinking we will sacrifice all of the time and be clean. That is cleaning the outside of the cup (going through the motions).

    They think the purpose of "Keeping" the law is to "cleanse" them. But the purpose of the law is to show forth "How" YAH cleanses them. But they are blind to it. Just as Judas was. (at the time)

    > "I didn't read of any blood gushing out of Yah-be-Praised. << "
    On the contrary brother, "blood/sin" does indeed "gush out" from our belly, when we praise Yah and confess HIS "Name".

    May Yah bless you Lou, may He put His name upon you and call you His.

    Love,
    sis,
    d'
    "At that day
    shall a man look to his Maker,
    and his eyes shall have respect
    to the Holy One of Israel."
    Isaiah 17:7

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    237

    Smile Shalom, my dearest Sis DeAnna...

    And what you wrote to Lou... How Yahshua was talking to Satan. HalelluYah brother!
    Are you saying that Jesus Christ was priming Satan to possess Yah-be-Praised so he can be betrayed? WoWWW! Are you sure? Jesus Christ is having very little regard for a human being. He is allowing Satan to possess Yah-be-Praised just like that. Jesus Christ had the power to cast out devils, and demons, but he seems powerless to guard Yah-be-Praised from being possessed by Satan. There are so many more comments that I can make on your typing, but I think that you are not too careful to read what you type.

    You quoted,
    Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets,(speakers/sayers) which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
    I agree with you 100 percent. Whoever wrote the gospel of Matthew didn’t know that Jesus Christ is one of these prophets. Let me explain.

    As you probably know Jesus Christ was immensely popular among the Jews throughout his life (or "Earthly ministry") Large crowds of Jews were following him every where he went. At the pick of his career Jesus Christ made an awe-inspiring prophecy. The writers of the NT couldn’t possibly ignore it even more than 40 years later when the gospels began to be written. Some of the Jews who heard Jesus Christ making that prophecy were still alive and believed what he told them. You must remember that the Jews were waiting for the "consolation of Israel" and the "liberation of Jerusalem."

    Luke 2:25 (NIV) Now there was a man in Jerusalem called Simeon, who was righteous and devout. He was waiting for the consolation of Israel, and the Holy Spirit was upon him.

    Luke 2:38 (NIV) Coming up to them at that very moment, she gave thanks to God and spoke about the child to all who were looking forward to the redemption of Jerusalem.

    Luke 24:21 (NIV) but we had hoped that he was the one who was going to redeem Israel

    Acts 1:6 (NIV) So when they met together, they asked him, "Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?"


    Jesus Christ filled the hearts of the Jews with messianic hope assuring them that the restoration of the kingdom to Israel was at hand. In fact, he said that it was already in the midst. His statements and his prophecy never materialized. Jesus Christ turned out to be a phony prophet. At the cross he realized that Almighty Yahweh, or God, or Eloi, or whoever, was not his father after all. He didn't dare to forgive the sins of anyone anymore, but asked his “father” to do it. He said that “it is finished.” He complained, "why did you forsake me" and died a quick death. He must have thought that he was the messiah of Israel. There is nothing wrong to do that so as long as he can deliver, but Jesus Christ failed to deliver. The rest is history.

    After the last Jews who believed him died and the prophecy of Jesus Chris never materialized there were no new Jews believing in him. Only a handful followed Paul, but at the end they all deserted him, too. Christianity became a Heathen/Gentile religion to this day. Christians ignore the Hebrew Scriptures and don’t pay attention to what they read in the NT, so it is easy for them to believe anything the clergy tells them. According to the Torah, Jesus Christ deserves to be stone to death.

    Matthew 16:28 (NIV) I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."

    Mark 9:1 (NIV) And he said to them, "I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God come with power."

    Luke 9:27 (NIV) I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God."


    Deuteronomy 18:21-22 * You may say to yourselves, "How can we know when a message has not been spoken by Yahweh?" If what a prophet proclaims in the name of Yahweh does not take place or come true that is a message Yahweh has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him.

    The bit on "salvation" from going to Dante's Inferno is of Heathen origin and it is strictly for Christian consumption. Israel is not promised any of that.

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