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Thread: Incest And Other Illicit Sexual Relationships

  1. #46
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    thank you for your words of encouragement.
    and I will most definetly take this to her--

    Bless you!
    and thank you again.

    AntotiYAh
    ONLY IN MESSIAH KRISTOS DO WE FIND OUR REAL LIFE, AND THIS REALITY AND TRUE, REAL LIFE IS AT THE PLACE WHERE YeHSooH SITS OF HONOR AND GLORY!

  2. #47
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    Dear Spying,

    You asked me:

    “So, Rovivus, have you done the right thing with respect to his supporters? What steps have you taken along those lines?”

    This is the short version:

    I will attempt to explain to you what I did in respect to my abusers supporters. First, please remember that at the beginning my abusers supporters were everyone around him, minus the children he abused. So myself, my older sister, and my cousin (my abusers oldest daughter) started studying everything that we could about child sexual abuse. Through doing this, we were helping to validate to ourselves that we must trust what we feel, and stop trusting Satan. My older sister and I disclosed our abuse to my father first--and he believed us. My father then shared that information with 2 other members of the church. Those two members confronted my abuser, and he admitted to abusing my older sister--and that’s it. In the weeks following, my mother strongly suggested that all of us (survivors) bring our experiences to the other members of the church so that they could understand what we have come to understand. So, we did. We worked so hard to compile information for them to read, we went around the room and poured out our guts about what we experienced as a child, embarrassing details, and the way in which we believed it had affected our lives.

    I will tell you that it did not go all to well. Some were sympathetic, some were acting like investigators, and some were just down right rude. Overall, they said that they wanted to be a part of our healing, but they couldn't live up to what they had said. (It is not possible to support both a victim of sexual abuse and his or her perpetrator at the same time.) Everything went down hill from there.

    After months of he said, she said floating through the church and our family we decided to have another meeting. We thought at this time, that our healing was dependent upon gaining their belief. So, again, we shared more memories, more pain, and then made the mistake of engaging in a self-defeating debate about the abuse. We sat stared at by cruel eyes of disbelief, and we knew as soon as we walked out the door that night that we had said good-bye, for now. We no longer have contact with those who refuse to acknowledge our abuse, or who continue to support our abuser. We have been called liars, we have been referred to as being on a witch hunt, and we have been told that we are “sick”. These were examples of the moments of “worse” that I mentioned on the other thread. And so the story goes, we did not give up, we pushed forward, and now the “worst” is over with. It just took time to realize that our healing would not stop if we didn’t let it. Today, we go on with our lives, and we have had to mourn the losses of those family members and friends who are on the “other” side.

    Spying, I didn’t really understand the last part of your post, about who’s light to use. But I must tell you that it is no longer my goal to convince the members of my “old” church and family that what has happened, has happened. They will only come to realize on their own, if at all. I trust that Yah wants me to leave them be, because when I decided to my life got better. It is just too difficult to surround yourself with denial when you are trying to survive.

    This is all I have time for, right now.
    By the way, anyone (if anyone) who has said a prayer for me--Thank You!
    Yah continues to answer.

    Rovivrus
    "Recognizing the impersonality of law, the survivor is to some degree relieved of the personal burden of battle. It is the law, not she, that must prevail."

  3. #48
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    shalom to all of you.

    this is short- and it is a request. a favor.

    Could you Rovivrus, Spying, DeAnna, or any of you go to the "the magi saw the devil...." topic and tell me where I have went wrong?
    I would greatly appreciate it- I need to know, if I have.

    AntotiYah
    ONLY IN MESSIAH KRISTOS DO WE FIND OUR REAL LIFE, AND THIS REALITY AND TRUE, REAL LIFE IS AT THE PLACE WHERE YeHSooH SITS OF HONOR AND GLORY!

  4. #49
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    Dear Antotiyah,

    I have visited the other thread, and I will tell you that I see red flags. And I am good at spotting red flags. I can spot control and manipulation a mile away.

    I have the following to offer you:
    Listen to yourself. Pay attention to your body and how it responds to the things you read. When your heart beats fast, when you feel anxious, when you feel preoccupied with anger and frustration it is your body’s way of telling you something. Do not neglect your self-care. When you do, the conversation topic is no longer relevant because it is controlling you. I feel you have been kind--and you have been mistreated. It seems to me some people come to this forum to be right, and others just come here to be. It is very obvious who falls into which category.

    This I say to everyone:
    Step out of the box, please. Each of us is an expert about something, but none of us knows everything. It takes a lot of courage to write at this forum. I was very fearful of participating. I feel at peace when I am here. If you don’t then I would encourage you to ask yourself some questions. “Why am I here?” “What do I hope to achieve?” “What do I hope to give?” “What do I hope to take with me?” If you cannot answer these questions, your heart is probably in the wrong place.

    I am thankful for those of you who have greeted me with a kind heart.
    Bless you,
    Rovivrus
    "Recognizing the impersonality of law, the survivor is to some degree relieved of the personal burden of battle. It is the law, not she, that must prevail."

  5. #50
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    Hi rovirus

    I agree with all you have said and thanks.
    Again it is greatly appreciated.
    I know one more thingin making this vessel better.

    to your questions:

    1. why am I here?
    I'm not sure but I like being here, there are some awesome people I have met- and truely, those awesome people are all of you on this one page. You are a great people. Who love, and unify, we find and look to be one- and what we can agree on. If we dont agree on something, we are still one- a decision was and is made that we do not wish to seperate. I praise Yah for this- This indeed is truely a miracle in my site- to witness people of such vast knowledge, to physically say the name "YAh" but not as divided as the SN's.
    peace be unto you all.
    I just like gaining the knowledge and fellowshiping with you guys.
    I guess when I tried to open it some more- my offer was rejected.

    what do I hope to achieve?

    gotta take some time and think.
    I hope to achieve,....hmmm......Wisdom, this is what I asked everyone(you, De, and Spy..) to share. I hope to acquire vast wisdom and practice it, however not prideful at all- even any secret pride has to go.
    I want these 2 things, that is what I hope to achieve by what you freinds, give.

    3.I hope to give my services of art and music to you all, (since I came to know you guys). but all these things are in progress, none of it done and thats something that doesnt even have to be done on this site, but its my connection to you(all 3 of you).
    I give my fellowship- and share with what I agree with- if I strongly disagree with something I'll state it- But I dont have much to give.
    wish I had more.

    . I wish to take with me- all that each of you have taught and shared. But I now have a greater hope of unification amongst the vast body out there.

    But be blessed friend.
    I know I belong here-
    we are the sons of Righteounsness- ha Tzaddikim.

    shalom with ahava
    AntotiYah

    thank you again
    ONLY IN MESSIAH KRISTOS DO WE FIND OUR REAL LIFE, AND THIS REALITY AND TRUE, REAL LIFE IS AT THE PLACE WHERE YeHSooH SITS OF HONOR AND GLORY!

  6. #51
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    Dearest brother AntotiYah,

    Oh My! I just saw your posts. I am sorry I was not here for you in time.

    I do have some words for her.

    In the face of an "obsessed" person, or violent. "Fear" > FEEDS them. This is soooooo imporant! When she shows fear, he laps it up like a dog. It is "part of the pleasure". The "control".

    Secondly, it is "very effective", to "repeat" your enemies words they speak back at them.
    Example;

    He says; "I'll chase you down, I'll find you, you'll never be free from me".

    She;
    with an "attitude" (tell her to think of a black girl, "attitude".)
    Tell her to hold up her right hand (if she is righthanded) with all fingers "out" and stiff; like you are telling someone to "stop". having her fingers open and stiff like this will "steady her". It is also the "exact" body language she wants to give.

    Tell her not to love her life unto death, and if she will be brave and "face" her enemy directly in the eye, she truly WILL be "given a crown of glory".

    with furrowed eyebrows, and one side of her nose pulled up. (like your face is saying something is "crazy" or "makes no sense".
    (This takes all respect away, and will also "help" her fear.)

    Tell her to say in a firm and loud if need be; "So! You want a prisoner! is that what your after? Is that what you desire in life (say his name) to be a WARDEN? a low life king want a be?
    You want to HURT ME? ..... YOU CAN'T HURT ME? I have ALLAH you dear rotten child! So BRING IT ON!

    Or something to the like. If she does this very aggressively,
    If he can really see that she is not afraid of him.. "He will become afraid... because he won't know what to do next. People like this truly do thrive on fear. This is a "manifestation" of the spiritual "rape" so to speak that the Adversary (Satan) has put upon man. But remember he is YAHS "adversary". For scripture says; "I raised you up for this very purpose, to be a WORTHY ADVERSARY UNTO ME".

    so, being Yahs adversary, we are "taught" that Yah is fear. Or more properly; "G O D" is fear. So those that want to feel like "God" use "fear". Without "fear", There IS NO ENSLAVEMENT.

    I had a "known" abuser, alone with me in a room, and he would not let me leave. He thew me up agianst the wall... Yes, I was sooooo scared, but i KNOW in my heart of hearts, that "man" can do nothing to me in the "reality" of things. Only Yah.
    So praise be to Yah, I came right back and said; "Oh you want to HIT ME? You want to beat me up? maybe kill me and find a place to dump my body? Is THAT WHAT YOU WANT TO DO?

    He backed off. It seems when you "repeat" or "point out" what they really are "doing"... they don't like to "hear it". They like to speak it, but not "hear it". It really does help alot.

    I had another person that really was "sick". And at one point said something like "I've never DONE things I COULD Have done".
    as if to justify himself. But I made him "hear" himself by saying;

    "Oh do you mean RAPE ME?, What I am in dept to you because you did not RAPE ME???? Shall you be HONORED?

    He shut up immediately. Show no fear!

    They get bored, and frustrated and move on. And ALSO, these words (If truth) will "haunt" them later. Truth ALWAYS does!
    It will actually "Help them"... but people are too afraid to say these things to them. So they don't get "truths" haunting them to bring about change.

    The above would be my first choice. Plan b, if she can't bring herself to do it. She MUST seek out someone that has influence on this person. She MUST "go over his head". And if he is "close" to one of his parents, that would be my first choice, I do not care how old he his. Parents have an INFLUENCE. If parents are not available, she must seek out his boss, or if they are friends, then his bosses boss. NOT a "freind", whom he probably rules anyway.
    Someone he looks up too, or can hurt him. (job wise)

    And when she approaches these people tell her to pray, and ask that Her Maker shall put HIS WORDS In Her Mouth.

    Dear friend, once someone starts "running". Its a lifetime before they stop. I know.
    But if she did have somewhere to go, grandmother in another state, I would not say to "not go". It would probably be good for her. But do "a" or "b" before she goes.

    Also, she needs to avoid contact with him as much as possible.

    I hope this helped. I too will pray for her. Bless her heart.

    And Rovivrus, I'm not knocking your hot line. I most definately encourage that too. It was wonderful of you to get that number.
    I hope she calls it.

    Yah bless all of you.

    And He will deliver her from all of this. I mean we are all asking Him too, and He Will.. I know He will. He brought her to you for a reason. And had you bring her to us for a reason. So if her faith isn't yet strong enough, ours will have to be. Be sure to tell her this. So when He does deliver her, she will "see" that he is an answerer of prayers.

    Love,
    d'
    "At that day
    shall a man look to his Maker,
    and his eyes shall have respect
    to the Holy One of Israel."
    Isaiah 17:7

  7. #52
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    Post The Fear Of Allah!

    Hi AntotiYAH,

    Happy Sabbath Day to you.

    I am responding to you request for assistance in dealing with the jealous anger and rage of your girlfriend's stalker.

    First of all, I advise you to continue approaching this situation with extreme caution as I know that you are doing. This is serious business. Do nothing to antagonize the stalker. Do not add fuel to his fire. Do not speak with the young lady over the phone, and be careful where you do go with her. Jealously is not confined to Muslims, but if the events of 911 teach us anything, Muslims have to be taken seriously in their threats.

    I recall a situation, and I think it was here in St. Louis, in which a Muslim father killed his disobedient teenage daughter because she would not live according to the rules of Islam. We are all aware of what the Taliban have done to women all in the name of submission to Allah. I was horrified, as I know all who saw it were, by the video of the robed Taliban officer walking up to the woman kneeling with her hand reaching back to him as he shot her dead on the soccer field. Apparently, Islam has laws which allows men to abuse and kill unsubmissive women and children. So, advise her not to antagonize him in any way, shape, or form.

    By the same token, you are required by the Law of YAH to take action if you see that her life is in danger:
    Lev 19:16
    16 Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour: I am (the) YAHWEH.
    We cannot stand idly by when we perceive that the life of our neighbor in is jeopardy. We must take action to put a stop to the assault.

    No assault has been committed here yet, but I think that it falls within the spirit of the above law that you should now act and think as if her life is in danger. Personally, I would work to obtain a taped conversation between the stalker and the young lady in which he does threaten her. I would then take a copy of that threat to the FBI. I am guessing that our country is in no mood to tolerate Muslims threatening woman at the present time. I believe that they will put the fear of Allah into him.

    Be careful, my Brother.

    Sincerely, Spying

  8. #53
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    Spying,

    I just read your post to Antotiyah and it occurred to me as I was reading it the second time--

    As we are not to stand by while someone’s life is in danger, we should also not stand by while someone’s innocence is in danger. Correct?

    Having said that, I do know that it is right that I have exposed the sin of my abuser, because in doing so I have attempted to protect others from being abused by him. I am not just "standing by". I, instead, am shouting out--as loud as I can, in so many ways. And I am so thankful for the ears that hear me.

    Just wanted to say thanks for validating that for me.

    Oh, and Antotiyah,
    I consider that you have already begun to act in order to help protect your friend. You have asked for the help of others (us). Also, you may not realize, but you help her by simply supporting her. She will believe that she can overcome this awful situation by knowing that she is not doing it all alone. Also, it will serve her best for you to simply help her explore her options, while empowering her to choose how she wants to react. Since she is a Muslim woman, she probably has not been empowered often. And don’t forget to tell her that it is not her fault. Please tell her that I pray for her.

    Sincerely,
    Rovivrus
    "Recognizing the impersonality of law, the survivor is to some degree relieved of the personal burden of battle. It is the law, not she, that must prevail."

  9. #54
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    Toda!

    Thank you all so much!
    thank you!

    This is the news since I was last here.

    Her parents rebuked her for believing in his threats, and her brothers taunt her- her mother said that if he, or any other muslim came to ask them(the parents) for her(my friend) in marriage that they(parents) would give her up to him.

    I was shocked, really- I thought they would be more compassionate.

    however- the stalker knew that the parents knew- and he was telling her that he was going to do, there's nothing stopping him right now.
    Then she shared the way that she felt, that she's scared, afraid, hurting, cant eat, angry, her bone's hurt(literally), and etc.
    then he threatened a little more, then closed off with-
    " Dont worry, I wont do anything now- but I will keep my eye on you and everywhere you go- I'll be there. You cant hide and If you mess up thats when I will mess you up"

    so she was happy that he wasnt going to do anything but she is still cautious about future events.
    thing is she doesnt know what she did wrong to him, and in the future he might just go off on her again- and she still wont know what she did wrong to him.

    so I fear for her, but I Believe that YAh will most definetely do something about this.
    May He be praised, he will see her through.

    I will most definetely encourage her to do a and b. I think she has already tried A b4 i even knew about this but B I will encourage her to do. Thanks DeAnna

    ....ummmm... spying.... why girlfriend?
    But thanks brother. it is an encouragement to me- act on this!
    And I am in a serious state about this too- but this gives me more.
    Thanks.

    and thanks rovirus, for your love. All of you give it
    thanks

    thanks to all of you for your encouraging words for her, it encourages me too. Toda ve she Elohim evareh aleikhem!

    shalom
    AntotiYah
    ONLY IN MESSIAH KRISTOS DO WE FIND OUR REAL LIFE, AND THIS REALITY AND TRUE, REAL LIFE IS AT THE PLACE WHERE YeHSooH SITS OF HONOR AND GLORY!

  10. #55
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    Shalom AntotiYah,

    Yah bless you dear brother.

    AntoitYah, does she live in the states?

    How old is she?

    Do you ever get to talk to her in person? or just on line?

    I do so feel for Muslim women. Well, for all of them really.

    I too believe that Yah will show her mercy.

    May Yah put His words in thy mouth AntoitYah, And may they never depart from thee.

    love,
    d'
    "At that day
    shall a man look to his Maker,
    and his eyes shall have respect
    to the Holy One of Israel."
    Isaiah 17:7

  11. #56
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    Shalom DeAnna

    Yes , she lives in the states--Fl

    She is 18 I believe, 17 or 18

    and yes, I only talk with her in person- she goes to the college i go to.

    Her name is Maysa, it means wind and graceful
    her last name means nobility
    and in her character she has them.

    and thanks again, and Yes He will show her mercy, I know He will.

    shalom
    sojeru
    ONLY IN MESSIAH KRISTOS DO WE FIND OUR REAL LIFE, AND THIS REALITY AND TRUE, REAL LIFE IS AT THE PLACE WHERE YeHSooH SITS OF HONOR AND GLORY!

  12. #57
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    Thumbs up Be Encouraged!

    Hi Rovivrus,

    Thank you for your replies and your questions. May YAH bless you and keep you!

    The light from which we must judge ourselves is the Word of YAH, and specifically that light is the Law or Torah. So, you are quite right in feeling validated concerning exposing your molester as a predator based upon Leviticus 19:16. When we see a bear approaching or a poisonous snake, we give warning, do we not? So also are we required to give warning concerning the potential for harm when we know that a pattern of behavior exists within a certain individual. I am as a child myself in this area, and I have been gradually learning concerning this responsibility.

    When I posted Leviticus 19:16 to AntotiYAH, I knew that you would receive it because it is an answer to your question concerning which light we are to use to judge ourselves. Thus, I could give you an answer without directly giving you an answer. I will do that often. It allows me to point the way, but it gives you yourself the opportunity to reach the proper conclusion which you did do.

    I also posted verse 16 because I wanted you to also read and question in your mind the whole issue of talebearing. It is not by coincidence that the very commandment which requires you to give warning also commands that you not be a talebearer. If you are not believed concerning your abuser by his supporters, then it is obvious to me that they do consider you to be a talebearer and a false witness. Obviously, they do not believe that a bear is a bear or that a rattlesnake is a rattlesnake based upon your testimony. Do you know why this is true?

    There does exist a spiritual argument that 100% supports the action that you have taken. I know that your resolve has been firm thus far, and I suspect that this resolve has endured much internal conflict as you have struggled with those who do not believe you, but I want you to know that YAH has been behind your resolve, and I want you to know that YAH has directed your steps for HIS reasons. I will endeavor to explain that reasoning to you in a forthcoming post.

    Be encouraged, Rovivrus!

    Sincerely, Spying

  13. #58
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    Hello all of my friends,

    Today I cry and I cry as loud as my voice will cry to Yah. I found out last night that my Grandparents (my abusers parents) have disowned my immediate family, including my dad, their own son. They have disowned us for “speaking outside of our family” about the abuse. So, I spoke too soon about things not getting any worse. I can’t even put into words the piercing in my heart right now. I feel paralyzed by sadness. I have never in my life felt a pain so strong. I don’t know how much more loss my soul can endure. I ask you all to please pray for me, my family and my father. Please pray from down on your knees, for I know not what else to do.
    I would like to share with you, my most recent poem:


    For my Abuser

    Torture leave my mind
    Pain let go of my soul
    Satan leave me be
    As we lay and close our eyes
    Or keep them open in blank stare
    It seems all to unreal
    Such hatred
    Such sin, so rare
    A lifetime shattered
    Right before our eyes
    How much more of me can die?
    Stop making us pay
    The high price of one man’s sin
    One man's lies
    One man's deceit
    Betrayal of the worst kind
    We told the truth
    And we are the ones left behind
    I want to take it all
    All that runs through my mind
    And burn it in a lake of fire
    The same lake that runs through his veins
    The one that brings all of this pain
    This treatment that makes me feel insane
    All of these lies
    Evil and no remorse
    It makes me feel that with all of me, and all I’ve got
    With all of my power, I shall forgive him not
    December 10, 2001

    Spying, thank you for your kind words. I will respond to you more specifically in due time, when my head clears.
    "Recognizing the impersonality of law, the survivor is to some degree relieved of the personal burden of battle. It is the law, not she, that must prevail."

  14. #59
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    misken

    I will be on my knees friend.
    I will be on my knees.

    He will deliver you-
    I wonder what I could learn from all of this your going through.
    You are an awesome testimony of Yah's works to us.
    He will bless you-

    His mercies be with you!
    He is with you beloved of existence,
    Yah is with you........
    ONLY IN MESSIAH KRISTOS DO WE FIND OUR REAL LIFE, AND THIS REALITY AND TRUE, REAL LIFE IS AT THE PLACE WHERE YeHSooH SITS OF HONOR AND GLORY!

  15. #60
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    Antotiyah,

    Thank you so much for your words of encouragement. What a good way to start my day.

    Oh, and about what you said regarding learning from me and my story--I just want you to read the things I talk about, they are from my heart. If they don't have personal type meanings for you right now, they will someday. You will be one more person who is aware and not blind.

    Have a good day
    I feel today will be better than yesterday

    Rovivrus
    "Recognizing the impersonality of law, the survivor is to some degree relieved of the personal burden of battle. It is the law, not she, that must prevail."

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