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Thread: Did Yeshua Slay or Kill Himself?

  1. #1
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    Did Yeshua Slay or Kill Himself?

    Shalom Everyone, there are some who believe that Yeshua was the one who sacrificed Himself, and the assembly of the wicked had nothing to do with it. Here are a few Scriptures to consider when trying to find the Truth concerning this:

    Psa 17:9 From the wicked that oppress me, [from] my deadly enemies, [who] compass me about.

    Psa 22:16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.

    Psa 22:18 They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.

    Mt 27:35 And they crucified him, and parted his garments, casting lots: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, They parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture did they cast lots.

    Zech 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for [his] only [son], and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for [his] firstborn.

    Jn 19:37 And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.

    Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

    Yeshua also predicted that He would be condemned to death and handed over to the Gentiles to be crucified:

    Mt 20:18 - 20:19

    18 Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be betrayed unto the chief priests and unto the scribes, and they shall condemn him to death,
    19 And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify [him]: and the third day he shall rise again.

    It is very evident that Yeshua did not pierce, slay, or kill Himself, but that He WILLINGLY submitted Himself to be OUR Sacrifice, and WE all did all slay/pierce Him, by the hands of wicked men. The Law did not require that the Sacrifice kill or slay itself, but that the SINNER is the one who would do that:

    Lev 4:27 - 4:29

    27 And if any one of the common people sin through ignorance, while he doeth [somewhat against] any of the commandments of Yahweh [concerning things] which ought not to be done, and be guilty;
    28 Or if his sin, which he hath sinned, come to his knowledge: then he shall bring his offering, a kid of the goats, a female without blemish, for his sin which he hath sinned.
    29 And he shall lay his hand upon the head of the sin offering, and slay the sin offering in the place of the burnt offering.

    When it comes to the KNOWLEDGE of sinners that they through ignorance (Acts 3:17) did kill or slay Yeshua, that slaying or sacrificing of Him by us fulfills what Lev 4:27-29 demands. Lev 4:27-29 did not demand that the offering slay or sacrifice itself, and those who teach this are in great error. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew/Ken.
    Col 2:16 & 17 Teaches us that no "man" is to determine what we eat or drink, or how the Sabbath, Holy Days, and New Moon should be observed, instead, The Body of Messiah determines those things, just like what happened in Acts 15.

    Now, The Body of Messiah determined that since Moses is READ every Sabbath in the Synagogues (Acts 15:21), the Gentiles would be able to HEAR (Luke 16:31, John 5:46-47), and then do those things to farewell (Acts 15:29). Those FOUR necessary commands that The Body of Messiah determined for the Gentiles, were FROM the Law of Moses. So do not let anyone deceive you into believing falsely about the Law of Moses.

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    very few know this AMAZING AMAZING fact?

    At the moment of rendering His spirit, Jesus opened His mouth again and cried out with a loud voice,
    “Father, into Your hands I commit My spirit.” (Luke 23:46)
    These are the 8 words we read, but very few know what REALLY happened.
    why not?
    Because it cannot be seen from the sentence.

    The revelation is this -Jesus died.
    mark 15 v 39
    And when the centurion, who stood there in front of Jesus, saw how he died, he said,
    "Surely this man was the Son of God!"
    but what you don;t know is this
    ~~~~why did the Roman Guard speak these 8 words "Surely this man was the Son of God!"?



    You will never know UNLESS , Jesus reveals this massive revelation to His friends.
    what happened when Jesus finished His 8 words = He died.
    He lay down His life HIMSELF.
    meaning
    At His own sentence spoken out = it killed Him
    .=HE DIED BY HIS OWN WORD.

    HIS LIFE ENDED BY HIS OWN WORD,...... this is why the Roman guard [so experienced in crucifications] said "Surely this man was the Son of God!"?

    Jesus
    HIS OWN WORD KILL HIM AS HE GAVE UP HIS OWN LIFE by HIS WORD.
    By speaking out His own word = this word ended His life as He shut down His own LIFE force himself

    no being
    no person
    could ever KILL Jesus as HE IS THE LIFE. = Jesus LAY DOWN HIS OWN LIFE for His friends.
    He can lay it down or take it up again at will

    john 10 v 17
    The reason my Father loves Me is that I lay down my life-only to take it up again.
    No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of My own accord.
    I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again.
    This command I received from My Father.''
    Never let the enemy cause you to doubt your calling.
    He will try to bring you down by these things.
    Use your weapons and he will flee from you.
    Some of you encounter opposition.
    There will always be the ignorant and the accusers, but I will remove them off from before your face.

  3. #3
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    So Stephen had the same ability?

    Quote Originally Posted by LucySmith View Post
    These are the 8 words we read, but very few know what REALLY happened.
    why not?
    Because it cannot be seen from the sentence.

    The revelation is this -Jesus died.
    mark 15 v 39


    but what you don;t know is this
    ~~~~why did the Roman Guard speak these 8 words "Surely this man was the Son of God!"?



    You will never know UNLESS , Jesus reveals this massive revelation to His friends.
    what happened when Jesus finished His 8 words = He died.
    He lay down His life HIMSELF.
    meaning
    At His own sentence spoken out = it killed Him
    .=HE DIED BY HIS OWN WORD.

    HIS LIFE ENDED BY HIS OWN WORD,...... this is why the Roman guard [so experienced in crucifications] said "Surely this man was the Son of God!"?

    Jesus
    HIS OWN WORD KILL HIM AS HE GAVE UP HIS OWN LIFE by HIS WORD.
    By speaking out His own word = this word ended His life as He shut down His own LIFE force himself

    no being
    no person
    could ever KILL Jesus as HE IS THE LIFE. = Jesus LAY DOWN HIS OWN LIFE for His friends.
    He can lay it down or take it up again at will

    john 10 v 17
    Lucy, so by what you are trying to teach us, we must also assume that Stephen had the same ability as did Yeshua? Stephen ALSO ask for his spirit to be received, and he also asked that those who were killing him to be forgiven:

    Acts 7:59 They went on stoning Stephen as he called on Yahweh and said, “Yahweh Yeshua, receive my spirit!

    Compare what Yeshua said:

    Lk 23:46 And Yeshua, crying out with a loud voice, said, “Father, INTO YOUR HANDS I COMMIT MY SPIRIT.” Having said this, He breathed His last."

    And then they BOTH forgave those who were assisting them in giving up their spirits:

    Stephen - Acts 7:60 Then falling on his knees, he cried out with a loud voice, “Yahweh, do not hold this sin against them!” Having said this, he fell asleep.

    Yeshua - Lk 23:34 But Yeshua was saying, “Father, forgive them; for they do not know what they are doing.” And they cast lots, dividing up His garments among themselves.

    How about that. Your whole thesis and doctrine concerning Yeshua not having anyone taking His life from Him, is based upon something that ALSO transpired with Stephen. Do you want to change your teachings? Ken

    P.S. Those who misunderstand John 10:15 & 17, and try to teach that Yeshua took His own life, need to look closer at what Yeshua was trying to say:

    Jn 10:11 - 10:13

    11 “I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep.
    12 “He who is a hired hand, and not a shepherd, who is not the owner of the sheep, sees the wolf coming, and leaves the sheep and flees, and the wolf snatches them and scatters them.
    13 “He flees because he is a hired hand and is not concerned about the sheep.

    Yeshua was not saying that He would be the one taking His OWN life, what He was saying was that He was willing to allow Himself to be killed by the WOLF, and He would not flee away from that coming threat (He saw what was coming upon Him, and He did not flee or turn away from that impending suffering and death). So don't be mistaken, it would be the WOLF taking the life of the Shepherd, not the Shepherd taking His OWN life, as the Shepherd was WILLING to lay His life down for the Sheep.
    Col 2:16 & 17 Teaches us that no "man" is to determine what we eat or drink, or how the Sabbath, Holy Days, and New Moon should be observed, instead, The Body of Messiah determines those things, just like what happened in Acts 15.

    Now, The Body of Messiah determined that since Moses is READ every Sabbath in the Synagogues (Acts 15:21), the Gentiles would be able to HEAR (Luke 16:31, John 5:46-47), and then do those things to farewell (Acts 15:29). Those FOUR necessary commands that The Body of Messiah determined for the Gentiles, were FROM the Law of Moses. So do not let anyone deceive you into believing falsely about the Law of Moses.

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    if you read the prose correctly - a little bible lesson Ken

    you will find ''stephen was ordained a deacon'' not an evangelist

    The ordination of the seven deacons. The zeal of Stephen.
    [1] And in those days, the number of the disciples increasing, there arose a murmuring of the Greeks against the Hebrews, for that their widows were neglected in the daily ministration
    [2] Then the twelve calling together the multitude of the disciples, said:
    It is not reason that we should leave the word of God, and serve tables.
    [3] Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men of good reputation, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business.

    [4] But we will give ourselves continually to prayer, and to the ministry of the word.
    [5] And the saying was liked by all the multitude.
    And they chose Stephen, a man full of faith, and of the Holy Ghost, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolas, a proselyte of Antioch.
    please note Ken the work ethic that was ordained
    as we read the prose the apostles did not wish to leave the Word of God to serve on tables
    they wished to pray and deliver the Word as ordained As eye witnesses trained up for this ministry

    Stephen was appointed as a deacon to serve on tables NOT TO PREACH the Word as that was the apostles mission not a decans


    the work of a Deacon
    The role or office of deacon was developed in the early church primarily to minister to the physical needs of the members of the body of Christ.
    In Acts 6:1-6 we see the initial stage of development.


    so now we can see a GLITCH appearing as decans were not the 12 apostolic evangelists to preach out the kingdom of Heaven as ordained
    BTW
    stephan was not filled with the holy spirit if he was he would never have died.


    now for the true difference
    While they were stoning him, ;;;;Stephen;;;;;; prayed, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit."

    if you are ANOINTED by the truth spirit ken you will see the difference
    ''''stephen''''' did not give up his life force and die by his own will it was taken from him by murder by stoning
    Jesus lay down His life and stopped his own life force AS NO man could take his life away

    few will believe your viewpoints Ken
    the guilt trips no longer work on those who are found IN christ
    Never let the enemy cause you to doubt your calling.
    He will try to bring you down by these things.
    Use your weapons and he will flee from you.
    Some of you encounter opposition.
    There will always be the ignorant and the accusers, but I will remove them off from before your face.

  5. #5
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    Why is your logic and teaching so convoluted and contrary to the Scriptures?

    Quote Originally Posted by LucySmith View Post
    you will find ''stephen was ordained a deacon'' not an evangelist



    please note Ken the work ethic that was ordained
    as we read the prose the apostles did not wish to leave the Word of God to serve on tables
    they wished to pray and deliver the Word as ordained As eye witnesses trained up for this ministry

    Stephen was appointed as a deacon to serve on tables NOT TO PREACH the Word as that was the apostles mission not a decans


    the work of a Deacon
    The role or office of deacon was developed in the early church primarily to minister to the physical needs of the members of the body of Christ.
    In Acts 6:1-6 we see the initial stage of development.


    so now we can see a GLITCH appearing as decans were not the 12 apostolic evangelists to preach out the kingdom of Heaven as ordained
    BTW
    stephan was not filled with the holy spirit if he was he would never have died.


    now for the true difference
    While they were stoning him, ;;;;Stephen;;;;;; prayed, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit."

    if you are ANOINTED by the truth spirit ken you will see the difference
    ''''stephen''''' did not give up his life force and die by his own will it was taken from him by murder by stoning
    Jesus lay down His life and stopped his own life force AS NO man could take his life away

    few will believe your viewpoints Ken
    the guilt trips no longer work on those who are found IN christ
    Lucy, all I did was point out a very basic and truthful comparision between what happened to Stephen and Yeshua...they BOTH gave up their spirit and they BOTH forgave those who were taking their lives. Now you can convolute and twist it all you want, but it will not change the Truth. Also, you need to KNOW the Scriptures better, and you wouldn't make so many obvious mistakes in what you write:

    "BTW
    stephan was not filled with the holy spirit if he was he would never have died.
    So, your TEACHING is that Stephen was not filled with the Holy Spirit...hmm, let's see:

    Acts 6:3 - 6:5

    3 “Therefore, brethren, select from among you seven men of good reputation, full of the Spirit and of wisdom, whom we may put in charge of this task.
    4 “But we will devote ourselves to prayer and to the ministry of the word.”
    5 The statement found approval with the whole congregation; and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Spirit, and Philip, Prochorus, Nicanor, Timon, Parmenas and Nicolas, a proselyte from Antioch.

    So I guess your teaching is that Acts 6:3-5 was corrupted to state that Stephen was filled with the Holy Spirit? And what about Stephen's ability to perform great wonders and signs amounst the people, and his ability to defeat those who argued against him with WISDOM and The Spirit:

    Acts 6:8 - 6:10

    8 And Stephen, full of grace and power, was performing great wonders and signs among the people.
    9 But some men from what was called the Synagogue of the Freedmen, including both Cyrenians and Alexandrians, and some from Cilicia and Asia, rose up and argued with Stephen.
    10 But they were unable to cope with the wisdom and the Spirit with which he was speaking.

    So Lucy, why do you teach against what the Scriptures plainly tell us? Stephen was FULL of the Holy Spirit and WISDOM, so isn't it obvious your argument and teaching is WRONG about Stephen NOT being filled with the Holy Spirit?

    Acts 7:55 But (Stephen) being full of the Holy Spirit, he gazed intently into heaven and saw the glory of Elohim, and Yeshua standing at the right hand of Elohim;

    Lucy, Stephen was FULL of the Holy Spirit, so please Lucy, repent of your false teachings about him to us. Ken
    Col 2:16 & 17 Teaches us that no "man" is to determine what we eat or drink, or how the Sabbath, Holy Days, and New Moon should be observed, instead, The Body of Messiah determines those things, just like what happened in Acts 15.

    Now, The Body of Messiah determined that since Moses is READ every Sabbath in the Synagogues (Acts 15:21), the Gentiles would be able to HEAR (Luke 16:31, John 5:46-47), and then do those things to farewell (Acts 15:29). Those FOUR necessary commands that The Body of Messiah determined for the Gentiles, were FROM the Law of Moses. So do not let anyone deceive you into believing falsely about the Law of Moses.

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    Thumbs up The LAW gives LIFE To Those Who Keep It!

    Hi Lucy,
    Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

    Happy High Holy Sabbath Day to one and all!

    The Apostle Paul, whom you always seek to discredit, said this about the Law:

    1 Timothy 1:8-11
    8 But we know that the law is good, if a man employ it lawfully;
    9 Knowing this, that law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
    10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
    11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed ELOHIM, which was committed to my trust.

    Messiah Yahushua said this about the Law:

    Matthew 5:17-18
    17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
    18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

    It is very obvious to me that Messiah Yahushua by the above claim is saying that HE HIMSELF would accomplish anything and everything that the Law and the Prophets required of HIM. This fulfillment is the very basis of the further claim of Messiah that HE did possess LIFE in HIMSELF. For the Law does promise LIFE to those who keep the Law so Yahushua had LIFE in HIMSELF because HE fully kept the Law. You and others can attempt to convince ImAHebrew and myself that Messiah Yahushua HIMSELF did in some fashion break the Law, but if Messiah came to fulfill the Law, then Messiah did not break the Law. No one no matter how hard you may try can convict Messiah Yahushua of sin!

    The Law is very clear about the command to bring sacrifice. Under the Law no sacrifice is allowed for deliberate sin (There may be an exception here concerning the communal sacrifice for the people on the Day of Atonement). This is why Messiah asked HIS Father to forgive those who were in the process of putting HIM to death unknowingly. There is absolutely no forgiveness for those who knowingly engage in putting Messiah to death.

    Now, I am fully aware that you and others like EliYah believe and teach that Messiah did sacrifice HIMSELF on HIS Cross. Your teaching is against the Law and, therefore, is against sound doctrine.

    Can you show me in either the Law or the Prophets where the sacrifice is required to sacrifice ITSELF?

    Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
    Sincerely, Latuwr
    The Currahee Band Of Brothers Are Beginning To Arise In The HOLY PLACE! Listen to them!!!

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    benny hinns does the same thing.. with a magic coat Ken

    Quote Originally Posted by ImAHebrew View Post
    Lucy, all I did was point out a very basic and truthful comparision between what happened to Stephen and Yeshua...they BOTH gave up their spirit and they BOTH forgave those who were taking their lives. Now you can convolute and twist it all you want, but it will not change the Truth. Also, you need to KNOW the Scriptures better, and you wouldn't make so many obvious mistakes in what you write:

    [/COLOR]So, your TEACHING is that Stephen was not filled with the Holy Spirit...hmm, let's see:

    Acts 6:3 - 6:5

    3 “Therefore, brethren, select from among you seven men of good reputation, full of the Spirit and of wisdom, whom we may put in charge of this task.
    4 “But we will devote ourselves to prayer and to the ministry of the word.”
    5 The statement found approval with the whole congregation; and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Spirit, and Philip, Prochorus, Nicanor, Timon, Parmenas and Nicolas, a proselyte from Antioch.

    So I guess your teaching is that Acts 6:3-5 was corrupted to state that Stephen was filled with the Holy Spirit? And what about Stephen's ability to perform great wonders and signs amounst the people, and his ability to defeat those who argued against him with WISDOM and The Spirit:

    Acts 6:8 - 6:10

    8 And Stephen, full of grace and power, was performing great wonders and signs among the people.
    9 But some men from what was called the Synagogue of the Freedmen, including both Cyrenians and Alexandrians, and some from Cilicia and Asia, rose up and argued with Stephen.
    10 But they were unable to cope with the wisdom and the Spirit with which he was speaking.

    So Lucy, why do you teach against what the Scriptures plainly tell us? Stephen was FULL of the Holy Spirit and WISDOM, so isn't it obvious your argument and teaching is WRONG about Stephen NOT being filled with the Holy Spirit?

    Acts 7:55 But (Stephen) being full of the Holy Spirit, he gazed intently into heaven and saw the glory of Elohim, and Yeshua standing at the right hand of Elohim;

    Lucy, Stephen was FULL of the Holy Spirit, so please Lucy, repent of your false teachings about him to us. Ken

    no mistake Ken
    do you know Ken, it was never the power of a miracle nor great wisdom [like Solomon had] that Changes anyone at all
    there is a group that does this and jesus says ''get away from me i never knew you''
    however
    your version of '' we are all responsible for killing Jesus [as sinners] is a lie''.
    = i will rebuke you each time.
    at all opportunities you DOWN GRADE JESUS amazing life and what He did as HE LAY DOWN HIS LIFE
    = stephen was murdered and died. as a natural process when one is murdered

    if stephen was ''filled'' with the holy spirit, he would not have died.
    it would have been impossible to kill him as it was with Jesus HIMSELF

    it is clear stephan was a decan and not an evangelist the 2 types of ministry appointed clearly seen
    the story is glitched/ corrupted in same way that is clear to see

    however you think as you will, so far it has no fruits to recommend us to your ways of belief as a Judaizer who mixes the laws of Moses with the gospel
    no man killed Jesus, He gave up his life a truth you dont seem to see.


    "I'm sorry you feel that way."
    23548063_10208582885809815_645241614_n.jpg
    Last edited by LucySmith; 05-27-2018 at 01:15 PM.
    Never let the enemy cause you to doubt your calling.
    He will try to bring you down by these things.
    Use your weapons and he will flee from you.
    Some of you encounter opposition.
    There will always be the ignorant and the accusers, but I will remove them off from before your face.

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    to Spying what the lips say compared to the life testimony is what it is about

    dear pal
    what I shall do, is LOOK AT THE FRUITS you produce from your and ken;s belief.

    that is what Jesus always told me to do
    question
    has your beliefs improved your lives to live a changed life that prospers you in spirit soul and body. as per john 10 v 10
    NO
    therefore i chose not to believe you both
    frankly i feel so sad, to see how you live surrounded by death and dysfunction and seem not even to notice
    there is another way
    23548063_10208582885809815_645241614_n.jpg
    Never let the enemy cause you to doubt your calling.
    He will try to bring you down by these things.
    Use your weapons and he will flee from you.
    Some of you encounter opposition.
    There will always be the ignorant and the accusers, but I will remove them off from before your face.

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    dear Spying= you need a very different mindset

    The LAW gives LIFE To Those Who Keep It!
    your belief Spying
    but you don't keep it!!!!
    613 laws must be kept as a WHOLE UNIT....
    To begin with, you divorced your wife on a trumped up charge issued out from YOUR ''hardened heart''

    Your wife at the time was a believer, and followed you for many years, but suddenly, AFTER years of disharmony with you, she was not now ''a believer'' according to your self imposed new standards.
    question?
    Why didn't Ken, divorce his now dear dead wife upon your ''new belief'' system too?

    The LAW DIED IN 70AD never to return how does it bring forth life NOW?- IT CANNOT.

    SAUL/PAUL
    The Apostle Paul, whom you always seek to discredit, said this about the Law:
    = AS JESUS did in rev 2 v 2 and issued a great warning
    THIS WARNING came from Jesus not me.
    Was Paul deceived by someone in the wilderness saying "I am Jesus" -- coming in "Christ's name" -- implying He was the Messiah-Jesus?
    Does Paul's experience fit Jesus' warning that we should not believe those coming in the wilderness or privately "in my name" saying "I am the Christ" after He ascended?
    Jesus explained that when He returns and appears next from heaven on earth He will be visible from every point "east and west," so don't be fooled by an impostor Jesus who only appears on earth in a private way or in a wilderness.
    (Matt. 24 vv. 4-6, vv. 26-27.)


    How Can One Recognize a False Christ, we read:
    He warned, “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or, ‘There!’ do not believe it.
    For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
    See, I have told you beforehand.
    Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it’ ”
    (Matthew 24:23-26, NKJV).
    QUESTION?
    WHY WERE YOU FOOLED Dear Spying?
    = you never listened to the Saviour but to ''the religious system'' you accepted a counterfeit system as the truth
    BTW
    seems you were also fooled by the apostate hoary head Armstrong too.

    also
    There was never a 13th apostle in a ''position of authority''
    [a truth you fail to notice.]
    A great place to start is Acts 1:21–26.
    ‘So one of the men who have accompanied us during all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,
    22 beginning from the baptism of John until the day when he was taken up from us—one of these men must become with us a witness to his resurrection.’
    23 And they put forward two, Joseph called Barsabbas, who was also called Justus, and Matthias.
    24 And they prayed and said, ‘You, Lord, who know the hearts of all, show which one of these two you have chosen
    25 to take the place in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside to go to his own place.’
    26 And they cast lots for them, and the lot fell on Matthias, and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.” (Acts 1:21–26)
    Saul missed the cut and the conditions laid down
    Why do U believe Saul, when He failed to meet DIVINE CONDITIONS?
    CAN YOU EXPLAIN THIS FAUX PAS?

    next
    WHY NOT REVIEW THE word meaning ''FULFILL''.... TO SEE ITS TRUE MEANING
    Matthew 5:17-18
    17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
    18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
    Why not become mature and understand the ''idiom'' .........''Till heaven and earth pass away''......
    You don't understand what this means, correctly in context.
    TITUS the great Roman General destroyed THE system of the laws of Moses in 70ad = kaput.

    next from your opinions expressed
    You and others can attempt to convince ImAHebrew and myself that Messiah Yahushua HIMSELF did in some fashion break the Law, but if Messiah came to fulfill the Law, then Messiah did not break the Law.
    No one no matter how hard you may try can convict Messiah Yahushua of sin!
    Jesus referred to the law 6 times as'' YOUR LAW'' AND went on to change it
    The whole of the law of Moses He referred to it in the 3rd person'' YOUR LAW'' never ''''my laws'''

    CONCLUSION
    Where you have gone wrong Spying is you entered into false and failed fellowship with Herbert Armstrong at a young age and was influenced by his power over you, that remains TODAY fully intact
    Therefore
    if we believed your version we too would BELONG TO ARMSTRONGISM and not be a follower of our Messiah who said ''FOLLOW ME'' only

    TO RECEIVE THE truth of LIFE NOW - comes from Jesus Himself and no the way.[ an invitation with an explanation]
    I would like now to revert your attention to Jhn 11 v 24 26 Jesus advice to Martha His friend.

    Martha already KNEW of the resurrection and the last day belief - nothing new there !!!
    Jesus said I AM THE RESURRECTION AND THE LIFE = not the law of Moses and this is where you have become an apostate,

    YOUR saviour is Moses and His debunked law, given to the jews [ not you] and by plural angels. [not our father creator Abba]
    therefore ye shall die in your sins,
    SIN IS A KILLER.
    Your relations are already dropping dead around you. = its THE LAW
    Never let the enemy cause you to doubt your calling.
    He will try to bring you down by these things.
    Use your weapons and he will flee from you.
    Some of you encounter opposition.
    There will always be the ignorant and the accusers, but I will remove them off from before your face.

  10. #10
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    points to wonder

    if ''stephen'' was not the person stoned to death who was it?
    also
    if ''stephen'' [ name meaning crown] was filled with the holy spirit with miracles and wisdom flowing from his person WHY WAS HE appointed merely as a TABLE CLEANER and general helper to the followers?
    a decan was not appointed to preach the gospel, as this is clearly revealed in this story.
    Never let the enemy cause you to doubt your calling.
    He will try to bring you down by these things.
    Use your weapons and he will flee from you.
    Some of you encounter opposition.
    There will always be the ignorant and the accusers, but I will remove them off from before your face.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by LucySmith View Post
    your belief Spying
    but you don't keep it!!!!
    613 laws must be kept as a WHOLE UNIT....
    To begin with, you divorced your wife on a trumped up charge issued out from YOUR ''hardened heart''

    Your wife at the time was a believer, and followed you for many years, but suddenly, AFTER years of disharmony with you, she was not now ''a believer'' according to your self imposed new standards.
    question?
    Why didn't Ken, divorce his now dear dead wife upon your ''new belief'' system too?

    The LAW DIED IN 70AD never to return how does it bring forth life NOW?- IT CANNOT.

    SAUL/PAUL
    = AS JESUS did in rev 2 v 2 and issued a great warning
    THIS WARNING came from Jesus not me.
    Was Paul deceived by someone in the wilderness saying "I am Jesus" -- coming in "Christ's name" -- implying He was the Messiah-Jesus?
    Does Paul's experience fit Jesus' warning that we should not believe those coming in the wilderness or privately "in my name" saying "I am the Christ" after He ascended?
    Jesus explained that when He returns and appears next from heaven on earth He will be visible from every point "east and west," so don't be fooled by an impostor Jesus who only appears on earth in a private way or in a wilderness.
    (Matt. 24 vv. 4-6, vv. 26-27.)



    QUESTION?
    WHY WERE YOU FOOLED Dear Spying?
    = you never listened to the Saviour but to ''the religious system'' you accepted a counterfeit system as the truth
    BTW
    seems you were also fooled by the apostate hoary head Armstrong too.

    also
    There was never a 13th apostle in a ''position of authority''
    [a truth you fail to notice.]
    A great place to start is Acts 1:21–26.


    Saul missed the cut and the conditions laid down
    Why do U believe Saul, when He failed to meet DIVINE CONDITIONS?
    CAN YOU EXPLAIN THIS FAUX PAS?

    next
    WHY NOT REVIEW THE word meaning ''FULFILL''.... TO SEE ITS TRUE MEANING

    Why not become mature and understand the ''idiom'' .........''Till heaven and earth pass away''......
    You don't understand what this means, correctly in context.
    TITUS the great Roman General destroyed THE system of the laws of Moses in 70ad = kaput.

    next from your opinions expressed


    Jesus referred to the law 6 times as'' YOUR LAW'' AND went on to change it
    The whole of the law of Moses He referred to it in the 3rd person'' YOUR LAW'' never ''''my laws'''

    CONCLUSION
    Where you have gone wrong Spying is you entered into false and failed fellowship with Herbert Armstrong at a young age and was influenced by his power over you, that remains TODAY fully intact
    Therefore
    if we believed your version we too would BELONG TO ARMSTRONGISM and not be a follower of our Messiah who said ''FOLLOW ME'' only

    TO RECEIVE THE truth of LIFE NOW - comes from Jesus Himself and no the way.[ an invitation with an explanation]
    I would like now to revert your attention to Jhn 11 v 24 26 Jesus advice to Martha His friend.

    Martha already KNEW of the resurrection and the last day belief - nothing new there !!!
    Jesus said I AM THE RESURRECTION AND THE LIFE = not the law of Moses and this is where you have become an apostate,

    YOUR saviour is Moses and His debunked law, given to the jews [ not you] and by plural angels. [not our father creator Abba]
    therefore ye shall die in your sins,
    SIN IS A KILLER.
    Your relations are already dropping dead around you. = its THE LAW
    Lucy,

    Liars and blasphemers like you of the Holy Spirit don't have forgiveness nor eternal life, and no matter how many times you lie and deceive yourself.

  12. #12
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    a martyr.

    martyrdom
    the death or suffering of a martyr.
    synonyms:
    death, suffering, torture, torment, agony, persecution, ordeal, anguish;
    killing, putting to death, martyrization, sacrifice, crucifixion, immolation, burning, burning at the stake;
    A question
    Who wants to be MARTYRED.
    [ANYONE]?
    TO be tormented in agony, burnt alive, or staked through and left to die etc? - any takers?
    hmmm
    Ofcourse if one is held a captive, without a personal choice then made a martyr- is a different story, but what of a ''willing'' martyr?

    When the 10 disciples saw Jesus taken and crucified, the Leader of the group Peter denied being a friend of Jesus,[3 times] and the rest hid behind closed doors for fear of the jews.
    So, the ministry of Jesus to these men, did not take away, the evil effects of apostle FEAR from their mindset.

    How do you fare when the chief demonic Apostle Fear hits you?
    Do you crumble as most men do?
    Ofcourse. - YOU RUN to the systems that will preserve your life just as the 10 disciples ran/hid to save their lives.
    [Disciple John did not run away, but stood by His friend Jesus at the cross]
    John the Overcomer

    THE FEARFUL are no use, to the Ministry as the evil ''Apostle Fear'' paralyses them in mind and soul.
    You ! = ARE NO USE TO THE DIVINES when you allow your fear to control you.
    Yes,
    You can talk and quote bible verses all day, but wilt like a pricked balloon, when Apostle Fear, has your name on his list to torment.

    The thing about the christian religion is your ''TALK IS CHEAP'' and keeping up appearances is essential, but, at the end of the day Man you are just a play toy of satan's and do his bidding as he pulls your slavish strings to his tunes
    why so
    because despite your bible quotes and religious gabbing, you never learnt how to lose your own life
    you are simply ALL HOT AIR

    the difference is the decan ''Stephen'', didnt give up his life willingly , but was taken held and stoned whereas Jesus GAVE UP HIS LIFE...willingly

    the person''stoned'' was not the Decan Stephen, [the server on tables not the appointed evangelists] but few ''see'' this glitch in the story - nor was ''stephen'' a prophetic witness as many believe - stemming from the
    Seventh-day Adventist Theological Seminary
    [ The first person to do this seems to have been the Irish scholar William Hales.
    In 1799, Hales published an anonymous volume in which he said that the last of the seventy weeks had ended “about A.D. 34 (about the martyrdom of Stephen).”]
    Never let the enemy cause you to doubt your calling.
    He will try to bring you down by these things.
    Use your weapons and he will flee from you.
    Some of you encounter opposition.
    There will always be the ignorant and the accusers, but I will remove them off from before your face.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by LucySmith View Post
    A question
    Who wants to be MARTYRED.
    [ANYONE]?
    TO be tormented in agony, burnt alive, or staked through and left to die etc? - any takers?
    hmmm
    Ofcourse if one is held a captive, without a personal choice then made a martyr- is a different story, but what of a ''willing'' martyr?
    Would a ''willing martyr'' be mentally challenged?
    When the 10 disciples saw Jesus taken and crucified, the Leader of the group Peter denied being a friend of Jesus,[3 times] and the rest hid behind closed doors for fear of the jews.
    So, the ministry of Jesus to these men, did not take away, the evil effects of apostle FEAR from their mindset.

    How do you fare when the chief demonic Apostle Fear hits you?
    Do you crumble as most men do?
    Ofcourse. - YOU RUN to the systems that will preserve your life just as the 10 disciples ran/hid to save their lives.
    [Disciple John did not run away, but stood by His friend Jesus at the cross]

    THE FEARFUL are no use, to the Ministry as the evil ''Apostle Fear'' paralyses them in mind and soul.
    You ! = ARE NO USE TO THE DIVINES when you allow your fear to control you.
    Yes,
    You can talk and quote bible verses all day, but wilt like a pricked balloon, when Apostle Fear, has your name on his list to torment.

    The thing about the christian religion is your ''TALK IS CHEAP'' and keeping up appearances is essential, but, at the end of the day Man you are just a play toy iof satan's and do his bidding as he pulls your slavish strings
    why so
    because despite your bible quotes and religious gabbing, you never learnt how to lose your own life
    you are simply ALL HOT AIR
    Lucy, the same as your talk above is cheap too.

    The reason they all did was that a prophecy was to be fulfilled.

  14. #14
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    The glitch opens up wider...

    #1 STEPHEN was not an appointed Evangelist, but a Decan serving the tables
    #2 WHO? then, was the martyr?

    #3 How could Stephen be stoned without a trial and conviction in front of the Roman Governor?
    From the Baker New Testament Commentary, p280, we read,
    The question of the legality of Stephen’s death is a difficult one.
    By all appearances, his death is the result of mob action that the Romans did not prevent.
    Nevertheless, the Roman governor could conduct an inquiry, because the Jews might not administer capital punishment (John 18:31) .
    That power belonged to the Roman governor.
    To illustrate:
    Whether or not the Jews were allowed to stone without direct Roman approval in each case is the question.
    Where does the idea that they were not allowed by the Romans to do this come from?
    Josephus states that the Roman procurator (governor) Coponius, sent to Judea by the emperor, was “entrusted by Augustus with full powers, including the infliction of capital punishment.”


    #4 Why did the witnesses lay their coats at Paul's feet?
    Is this Luke's literary device to introduce someone who will become a major character?
    introducing Saul = this is an inserted detail to introduce a main character.
    "the witnesses laid their coats at the feet of a young man named Saul," who later converted and who renamed himself Paul

    Why is this detail included and what is its significance?
    Saul didn't participate directly in Stephen's execution and he was trusted by the executioners/witnesses too mind their coats from thieves.
    Under Jewish law,* the criminal was to be stripped (Mishnah Sanhedrin 6:4), but here the executioners strip themselves.
    But why does Luke mention it?
    * Here Saul is '' a trusted' person by the crowd to look after their coats.
    * the accusers are acting decidedly un-Jewish.
    Never let the enemy cause you to doubt your calling.
    He will try to bring you down by these things.
    Use your weapons and he will flee from you.
    Some of you encounter opposition.
    There will always be the ignorant and the accusers, but I will remove them off from before your face.

  15. #15
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    Your MO.

    Quote Originally Posted by LucySmith View Post
    no mistake Ken
    do you know Ken, it was never the power of a miracle nor great wisdom [like Solomon had] that Changes anyone at all
    there is a group that does this and jesus says ''get away from me i never knew you''
    however
    your version of '' we are all responsible for killing Jesus [as sinners] is a lie''.
    = i will rebuke you each time.
    at all opportunities you DOWN GRADE JESUS amazing life and what He did as HE LAY DOWN HIS LIFE
    = stephen was murdered and died. as a natural process when one is murdered

    if stephen was ''filled'' with the holy spirit, he would not have died.
    it would have been impossible to kill him as it was with Jesus HIMSELF

    it is clear stephan was a decan and not an evangelist the 2 types of ministry appointed clearly seen
    the story is glitched/ corrupted in same way that is clear to see

    however you think as you will, so far it has no fruits to recommend us to your ways of belief as a Judaizer who mixes the laws of Moses with the gospel
    no man killed Jesus, He gave up his life a truth you dont seem to see.


    "I'm sorry you feel that way."
    23548063_10208582885809815_645241614_n.jpg
    Lucy, your MO (Method of Operation) is to stand firm on your misinterpretation of one or two verses of Scripture, and then castigate and ignore all the other Scriptures which clearly show you are teaching us falsely. Stephen's death was just like Yeshua's, false witnesses were used, and just like Messiah, Stephen bravely said and did what the Holy Spirit directed him to do. You trying to teach us that Stephen's death was just a natural process when someone is murdered, is preposterous. Steven could have kept his mouth shut and lived, but he willingly testified to the Truth, and his life was taken from him, just like Messiah's life was taken from Him when He was MURDERED/KILLED:

    Mt 16:21 From that time forth began Yeshua to shew unto His disciples, how that He must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.

    Mt 17:22 - 17:23

    22 And while they abode in Galilee, Yeshua said unto them, The Son of man shall be betrayed into the hands of men:
    23 And they shall kill Him, and the third day He shall be raised again. And they were exceeding sorry.

    Mt 20:18 - 20:19

    18 Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be betrayed unto the chief priests and unto the scribes, and they shall condemn Him to death,
    19 And shall deliver Him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify [Him]: and the third day He shall rise again.

    Mk 10:33 - 10:34

    33 [Saying], Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be delivered unto the chief priests, and unto the scribes; and they shall condemn Him to death, and shall deliver him to the Gentiles:
    34 And they shall mock Him, and shall scourge Him, and shall spit upon Him, and shall kill Him: and the third day He shall rise again.

    Acts 2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of Elohim, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

    Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that Elohim hath made that same Yeshua, whom ye have crucified, both Yahweh and Messiah.

    Acts 3:13 - 3:15

    13 The Elohim of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the Elohim of our fathers, hath glorified His Son Yeshua; whom ye delivered up, and denied Him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let [Him] go.
    14 But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;
    15 And killed the Prince of Life, whom Elohim hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.

    Acts 5:30 The Elohim of our fathers raised up Yeshua, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
    You see Lucy, even a small child could see that Yeshua did not kill or slay Himself upon the cross/tree, but it was ACCORDING to Elohim's PLAN that Yeshua SUBMIT Himself unto this horrific event, and allow Himself to be slain BY sinners. You can try to twist and distort all you want, but it won't change the very obvious, truthful facts that Yeshua was MURDERED/KILLED by sinners, just like Stephen was. Ken
    Col 2:16 & 17 Teaches us that no "man" is to determine what we eat or drink, or how the Sabbath, Holy Days, and New Moon should be observed, instead, The Body of Messiah determines those things, just like what happened in Acts 15.

    Now, The Body of Messiah determined that since Moses is READ every Sabbath in the Synagogues (Acts 15:21), the Gentiles would be able to HEAR (Luke 16:31, John 5:46-47), and then do those things to farewell (Acts 15:29). Those FOUR necessary commands that The Body of Messiah determined for the Gentiles, were FROM the Law of Moses. So do not let anyone deceive you into believing falsely about the Law of Moses.

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