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Thread: W something eh?

  1. #1
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    W something eh?

    Ken, I'm reading around here that people, post Jesus, killed him by sinning, or pre, not sure, irrelevant. How? Exactly? Yeah something about sin. Are you therefore responsible sins you had nothing to do with? Because of a sin you had no choice about? There is about 9,999 commandments in duderinomy, I broke 2 by age 3. 9998 by age 20. Like I read the book, or had a reason to care. How do you make someone responsible for something they did not do or were never told or understood? This sounds very to me political if you catch my drift. I wasn't born, don't blame me! Its not magic.

    Elijah, piss off (in my best bloody accent, time to give Ken trouble)
    I could be wrong. It happens.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmund Dantes View Post
    Ken, I'm reading around here that people, post Jesus, killed him by sinning, or pre, not sure, irrelevant. How? Exactly? Yeah something about sin. Are you therefore responsible sins you had nothing to do with? Because of a sin you had no choice about? There is about 9,999 commandments in duderinomy, I broke 2 by age 3. 9998 by age 20. Like I read the book, or had a reason to care. How do you make someone responsible for something they did not do or were never told or understood? This sounds very to me political if you catch my drift. I wasn't born, don't blame me! Its not magic.

    Elijah, piss off (in my best bloody accent, time to give Ken trouble)
    Ed, where did I say that, you caused me trouble? And if you do not wont me to respond, then don't use my name either.

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    Hang in the Edmund for my response.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edmund Dantes View Post
    Ken, I'm reading around here that people, post Jesus, killed him by sinning, or pre, not sure, irrelevant. How? Exactly? Yeah something about sin. Are you therefore responsible sins you had nothing to do with? Because of a sin you had no choice about? There is about 9,999 commandments in duderinomy, I broke 2 by age 3. 9998 by age 20. Like I read the book, or had a reason to care. How do you make someone responsible for something they did not do or were never told or understood? This sounds very to me political if you catch my drift. I wasn't born, don't blame me! Its not magic.

    Elijah, piss off (in my best bloody accent, time to give Ken trouble)
    Shalom Edmund, hang in there for my response. I have just had to read what you wrote multiple times to get the drift of what you are asking me. I will try to respond in the next 12 hours. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew/Ken.
    Col 2:16 & 17 Teaches us that no "man" is to determine what we eat or drink, or how the Sabbath, Holy Days, and New Moon should be observed, instead, The Body of Messiah determines those things, just like what happened in Acts 15.

    Now, The Body of Messiah determined that since Moses is READ every Sabbath in the Synagogues (Acts 15:21), the Gentiles would be able to HEAR (Luke 16:31, John 5:46-47), and then do those things to farewell (Acts 15:29). Those FOUR necessary commands that The Body of Messiah determined for the Gentiles, were FROM the Law of Moses. So do not let anyone deceive you into believing falsely about the Law of Moses.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ImAHebrew View Post
    Shalom Edmund, hang in there for my response. I have just had to read what you wrote multiple times to get the drift of what you are asking me. I will try to respond in the next 12 hours. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew/Ken.
    I was being ornery towards the idea. How is someone responsible for something that you're claiming happened in the past? Before they were born? If I read the posts correctly, most are over my head and really long, you're saying everyone killed Jesus just by being born basically.

    Then there's the question of why does God even need Jesus to die to forgive someone. Sounds, again, petty. Not to mention he was his son, or him, so could have been suicide. It's all bizarre, who'd do that to their kid?
    I could be wrong. It happens.

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    I'll give more later.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edmund Dantes View Post
    I was being ornery towards the idea. How is someone responsible for something that you're claiming happened in the past? Before they were born? If I read the posts correctly, most are over my head and really long, you're saying everyone killed Jesus just by being born basically.

    Then there's the question of why does God even need Jesus to die to forgive someone. Sounds, again, petty. Not to mention he was his son, or him, so could have been suicide. It's all bizarre, who'd do that to their kid?
    Shalom Edmund, I'll give more later...I have to get to work and ran out of time. But you do raise very good questions. Here's the thing, do you know anything about your "immune" system, or "inoculations?" We have learned through medicine and science that once we have been EXPOSED to a disease, our bodies will develop an immunity against that disease, and the same with inoculations. Expose the body to a less deadly form of a disease, and the body can then learn to defeat that disease and kill it. The reason I bring this up is to establish the fact that Elohim created mankind with the propensity to sin (He created us FLESH). It was His desire to allow us to be exposed to sin, so that we could learn to defeat it. As a means to get us on the right track in defeating sin, He is using that sin which He placed us under, to be TURNED into righteousness. Righteousness is DOING what the Law of Elohim requires, and it was by sinning that each and everyone of us did accomplish righteousness through the Free Gift of Grace that Elohim gives to all who sin. You see, the Law demands that a sinner sacrifice their sin offering, and when they do this act, they are righteous. Well, we all did slay or sacrifice Yeshua through or by the sin we were placed under by Elohim (and this is ALL sinners before and after His Sacrifice). He did this to TEACH and TRAIN us to STOP sinning (most will learn this after they are resurrected, but the Elect LEARNS and BELIEVES this now).

    Now, your question about WHY does "God" even need "Jesus" to die to forgive someone, is a very good question. Elohim does not DESIRE or NEED sacrifice to grant forgiveness, but the offering or sacrifice of sinners is needed to bring a sinner to repentance and to TURN them from their sin. Those who teach that Elohim's justice requires Innocent and Righteous Blood be shed in the place of the wicked, they do not KNOW Elohim. I know you do not what a bunch of Scriptures thrown at you, but this one should let you know how Elohim feels about the Sacrifice of His Innocent and Righteous Son:

    Ex 23:7 Keep thee far from a false matter; and the innocent and righteous slay thou not: for I will not justify the wicked.

    Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew/Ken.
    Col 2:16 & 17 Teaches us that no "man" is to determine what we eat or drink, or how the Sabbath, Holy Days, and New Moon should be observed, instead, The Body of Messiah determines those things, just like what happened in Acts 15.

    Now, The Body of Messiah determined that since Moses is READ every Sabbath in the Synagogues (Acts 15:21), the Gentiles would be able to HEAR (Luke 16:31, John 5:46-47), and then do those things to farewell (Acts 15:29). Those FOUR necessary commands that The Body of Messiah determined for the Gentiles, were FROM the Law of Moses. So do not let anyone deceive you into believing falsely about the Law of Moses.

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    Ken, you look at this in a very parental way. God is omni this and that right? So he created the problem, whatever grander than us he wants to teach, and sin. Why teach what you can impart. I get the anology, I really do. But the logic escapes me.

    To the second point, you and those who are believing in sacrifice are believing the same thing. You have to be a murderer or, believe God wants blood. My aquatence says sorry and I'm pretty good with forgiving him. Why does a god, much better than I, require something? Just say sorry, don't do it again.
    I could be wrong. It happens.

  7. #7
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    Are you a parent?

    Quote Originally Posted by Edmund Dantes View Post
    Ken, you look at this in a very parental way. God is omni this and that right? So he created the problem, whatever grander than us he wants to teach, and sin. Why teach what you can impart. I get the anology, I really do. But the logic escapes me.

    To the second point, you and those who are believing in sacrifice are believing the same thing. You have to be a murderer or, believe God wants blood. My aquatence says sorry and I'm pretty good with forgiving him. Why does a god, much better than I, require something? Just say sorry, don't do it again.
    Shabbat Shalom and Happy New Moon Edmund, I'm wondering, are you a parent? If you are, how did you teach your children? Would you have just "snapped" you fingers and had them be exactly how you wanted them to be, if that were possible? Would you not want them to MAKE the choice themselves to become HOW you wanted them to become? You wouldn't want to just make a "robot" child that really didn't have YOUR heart in loving what you love, would you? This is what Elohim is WORKING out, He is helping many sons and daughters to be LIKE Him, with the same values and character as He has. It could not have been taught to choose the GOOD, unless we FIRST lived in or experienced EVIL. Experience is the BEST teacher, and suffering because of sin teaches the lesson that we need to be done with sin. We see this in the suffering of Messiah, and when we come to a knowledge of the Truth that our sin caused His suffering, we change, and flee from sin. That is the purpose of His suffering, and then we ALSO have to follow in His footsteps, and learn how to suffer for doing good. These are all valuable lessons in learning to be LIKE Elohim, and He was willing to put this plan in motion so that many could do just that. Hopefully this helps a little. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew/Ken.

    P.S. The traditional view of shedding Righteous and Innocent Blood so that some kind of justice is satisfied, is delusional. Yeshua's Righteous and Innocent Blood was shed so that sinners would no longer remain in their sin...their sin would be taken away from their daily lives, and they would from their heart, stop sinning...their sin would go into "remission" in the same way cancer can go into "remission," it is still there, but no longer ACTIVELY progressing.
    Col 2:16 & 17 Teaches us that no "man" is to determine what we eat or drink, or how the Sabbath, Holy Days, and New Moon should be observed, instead, The Body of Messiah determines those things, just like what happened in Acts 15.

    Now, The Body of Messiah determined that since Moses is READ every Sabbath in the Synagogues (Acts 15:21), the Gentiles would be able to HEAR (Luke 16:31, John 5:46-47), and then do those things to farewell (Acts 15:29). Those FOUR necessary commands that The Body of Messiah determined for the Gentiles, were FROM the Law of Moses. So do not let anyone deceive you into believing falsely about the Law of Moses.

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    Ken, I think we aren't understanding each other. You're asking what the best way to teach a child, I'm asking why teach something you created and have control over. I can't create kids like God created humans. If we had the power to impart the wisdom of ourselves onto our kids, we'd be done. We wouldn't be having this discussion. We'd be "one", borg like. Yeah , kids, smack them, lightly, figuratively. Computer programs you create, fix it, change the code. We are his code if he's omni. He, she, you get the idea.

    I think you're doing this, I can't spell it, after multiple tries, do here's the link. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropomorphism
    I could be wrong. It happens.

  9. #9
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    Ken, btw, new moon is a matter of earth's perspective. ☺
    I could be wrong. It happens.

  10. #10
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    Think along these lines.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edmund Dantes View Post
    Ken, I think we aren't understanding each other. You're asking what the best way to teach a child, I'm asking why teach something you created and have control over. I can't create kids like God created humans. If we had the power to impart the wisdom of ourselves onto our kids, we'd be done. We wouldn't be having this discussion. We'd be "one", borg like. Yeah , kids, smack them, lightly, figuratively. Computer programs you create, fix it, change the code. We are his code if he's omni. He, she, you get the idea.

    I think you're doing this, I can't spell it, after multiple tries, do here's the link. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropomorphism
    Shabbat Shalom and Happy New Moon again Edmund, think along these lines. Elohim is a FAMILY, and before He/We RENEWED the face of this Earth, there was a REBELLION within His/Our Family. This rebellion took about 1/3 of the Family and turned them against Him/Us to darkness/evil, and the PLAN that Elohim has implemented, RESTORES His/Our Family to the Unity it once had. This Plan required that physical/carnal man be create AGAINST Elohim, to start out dwelling IN darkness/evil, and then TURN Mankind back to the Good/Light. It is a matter of Elohim weeding OUT from Himself/Ourselves the Evil that was found within. Now, I would have to give you a whole bunch of Scriptures to prove what I have just told you, and I know you don't want that, so I would hope that the Spirit that guides and helps us understand these things could also spark some interest in your mind to search these things out for yourself. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew/Ken.

    P.S. In looking at that website, there is little understanding as to HOW Elohim made man in His own image...male and female. We have a good understanding of that which they know nothing about.

    P.S.S. Concerning the New Moon, to be sure, sighting it is according to where it is positioned between the Earth and the Sun, but there is a whole realm of understanding that most have not considered. Take for instance this Scripture:

    Isa 30:26 Moreover the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold, as the light of seven days, in the day that Yahweh bindeth up the breach of his people, and healeth the stroke of their wound.
    Col 2:16 & 17 Teaches us that no "man" is to determine what we eat or drink, or how the Sabbath, Holy Days, and New Moon should be observed, instead, The Body of Messiah determines those things, just like what happened in Acts 15.

    Now, The Body of Messiah determined that since Moses is READ every Sabbath in the Synagogues (Acts 15:21), the Gentiles would be able to HEAR (Luke 16:31, John 5:46-47), and then do those things to farewell (Acts 15:29). Those FOUR necessary commands that The Body of Messiah determined for the Gentiles, were FROM the Law of Moses. So do not let anyone deceive you into believing falsely about the Law of Moses.

  11. #11
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    Ken, that's interesting. I think it's crazy, but it's interesting. God honestly sound much less competent than your human body. Not only did he create it, but screwed up heaven too. You're saying that vaccine processes, (which by the way there are nuts who think vaccines are conspiracies), is what God is doing. That's a lot of people who he subjects to pain if so. He could do something about it, but doesn't. That's kind of mean. He could have avoided all of this, but didn't. Did he have a choice, is he omni powerful or not? Starting to sound more and more like a human. With human flaws. As though we created god in our images. Every cultures god looks like and agrees with them. Wonder why? Orion in thr night sky is a hunter. Named by a culture for something they recognize. Why not 2 rhombus? They weren't mathematical geniuses.

    If you have proof, I'll look. But I don't want scripture tossed at me because it's dismissive ("what you don't understand this" type of thought) and circular logic. If you can prove it, it should be fairly simple.
    I could be wrong. It happens.

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    Thumbs up What Happened Between Genesis I:1 And Genesis 1:2?

    Hi Edmund Dantes,

    Shabbat Shalom and happy New Moon. (I do not greet you in this manner to imply that these days are important to you. I always acknowledge them in my posts because they are important to me.)

    As far as I know, the best place to start in seeking to understand the plan and purpose of YAHWEH ELOHIM, in HIS creation of Man, is the Genesis 1 creation account.

    Moses plainly states in Genesis 1:1 thusly:

    Genesis 1:1
    1 In beginning the ELOHIM created the heaven and the earth. (I have underlined the definite articles as they are found in the LXX.)

    Moses then in verse 2 of Genesis 1 gives us some rather startling information. Let's read it together:

    Genesis 1:2
    2 And the earth was without form (H8414), and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of ELOHIM moved upon the face of the waters.

    If we read and understand the above two verses in a strictly chronological sense, then we are forced to conclude that the ELOHIM are rather inept creators. Why in all the world would the ELOHIM create the earth without form and void?

    A reasonable person might very well question right here: What happened to bring the original creation of the ELOHIM into such a state of chaos?

    As we search for an answer, we are confronted with this scripture:

    Isaiah 45:18
    18 For thus saith the YAHWEH that created the heavens; ELOHIM himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain (H8414), he formed it to be inhabited: I am the YAHWEH; and there is none else.


    If YAHWEH ELOHIM did not create the Earth without form and desolate, is it not reasonable to ask how the Earth become or arrived at such a sorry state? I hope that can you see this question!

    Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
    Sincerely, Latuwr
    The Currahee Band Of Brothers Are Beginning To Arise In The HOLY PLACE! Listen to them!!!

  13. #13
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Edmund Dantes View Post
    Ken, you look at this in a very parental way. God is omni this and that right? So he created the problem, whatever grander than us he wants to teach, and sin. Why teach what you can impart. I get the anology, I really do. But the logic escapes me.

    To the second point, you and those who are believing in sacrifice are believing the same thing. You have to be a murderer or, believe God wants blood. My aquatence says sorry and I'm pretty good with forgiving him. Why does a god, much better than I, require something? Just say sorry, don't do it again.
    Edmund, you are more truer than Ken or Spying thinks, and your words remind me of these texts of scriptures that will affirm your words.

    For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings. Hosea 6:6.

    Messiah said: But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless. Matthew 9:13;12:7 .

    Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him. And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him. Luke 17:3-4.

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    Spying, not a clue. I see poetry, good poetry, but poetry. New moon is important to me too. I like astonomy, and it's good to know the history of where we come from. Old time keeping device. You see it as more I take it. Same with the verses, they don't show me anything special. I would say inept creator because of evil, that he could have stopped it but chose not to why? To teach us? (Then there's the joke about putting the amusement park next to the sewage plant, but that's just funny)

    EliYah, glad you see me as truer, though we've been bleep heads to eachother. Don't you see the same as ken and spying? That God doesn't forgive you unless you believe blood was shed by Christ to make you whole again? As though some special thought saves you? That what I find so silly about this. It's your thoughts that save you, not your morality, how you treat those in need. You could be gandhi, but if you don't have that special thought, you're tortured for eternity because gasp, you just didn't think a certain way. If you talk to Jews about it, who dont believe in Christ, all you have to do is say you're sorry. Why bother killing his only son, himself, whichever?
    I could be wrong. It happens.

  15. #15
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    Spying, I also see Venus next to the new moon tonight. It also goes through phases. Though you need a telescope to see it.
    I could be wrong. It happens.

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