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Thread: Why does Satan want to turn "gullible" people into "anti-vaxxers?"

  1. #46
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    the point act 5 scene 3a

    Quote Originally Posted by guyguy View Post
    Ken: Then what exactly is your point and please give the scriptures proving your point.
    guyguy and Ken on stage
    speaking in a loud voice

    guy guy
    ''well Ken,,
    what is your point''?

    Ken
    hmm,
    '' well I don't have a point, really~~~
    but I wanted to point out
    the point you failed to make guyguy''

    Guyguy
    So Ken
    ''you have no point right?
    to the point you are making
    but made it anyways''

    Ken
    ''well yes guyguy.
    that's the point you see
    I am making a point but you don't see my point ''

    Guyguy
    '' Oh Ken
    I do see your point,
    when you made the point but you didn't give any scripture to the point you made
    so
    I didnt understand the point you were making in the 1st place
    because when you make a point people understand the point you are making
    but
    in your case Ken
    no one understands all the points you don't make
    and
    don't use scripture to back up the points you are not making''

    Ken
    '' don't be ridiculous Guyguy
    when I make a point, its my point,
    my point belongs to me and is mine.
    if you don't understand my point,
    well hmmmm, I don't understand it either but it is still my point..''

    crowd hisses
    and
    boos boos boos.. [where is those rotten tomatoes]

    actors exit stage left
    guyguy points Ken to the way off the stage
    Ken is easily lost.
    I spend time now seeing the world through the color of my faith.
    I see things as I want them to be.
    I feel as though those things I desire were already true in my life.
    I speak words that confirm this new reality.
    I don't deny my current circumstance I just realize that it is only a momentary picture that will change to reflect my new awareness of being- as I persist in holding the vision, thoughts and feelings of the reality I want to create in christ.

  2. #47
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    It's very simple. His blood was shed to cause the remission (cessation) of sin.

    Quote Originally Posted by guyguy View Post
    Ken: Then what exactly is your point and please give the scriptures proving your point.
    Shalom guyguy, I'm glad you asked. It is very simple. Yeshua was manifested to DESTROY the WORKS of the devil (sin) in the lives of Elohim's children, thus, their sin goes into remission. A child of Elohim cannot remain IN sin as they purify themselves, as He is pure. Yeshua came and allowed for us to shed His blood so that we would no longer remain in sin, thus our sin is taken away. If you are no longer actively sinning, your sin has gone INTO remission, and it is taken away from your daily life. Please read these 10 verses from the Apostle John to help you grasp the purpose for Yeshua coming so that you would NOT remain in your sin (that there would be a REMISSION or CESSATION of your sin):

    1Jn 3:1 - 3:10

    1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of Elohim: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
    2 Beloved, now are we the sons of Elohim, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when He shall appear, we shall be like Him; for we shall see Him as He is.
    3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as He is pure.
    4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
    5 And ye know that He was manifested to take away our sins; and in Him is no sin.
    6 Whosoever abideth in Him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen Him, neither known Him.
    7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as He is righteous.
    8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of Elohim was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.
    9 Whosoever is born of Elohim doth not commit sin; for His seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of Elohim.
    10 In this the children of Elohim are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of Elohim, neither he that loveth not his brother.

    And guyguy, these two verses speak directly about His blood CLEANSING us FROM our sin to where we are not walking in darkness, but light:

    1Jn 1:6 - 1:7

    6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
    7 But if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Messiah Yeshua His Son cleanseth us from all sin.

    This cleansing FROM sin is to no longer dwell IN active sin (your sin goes INTO remission) by and through the shed blood of Yeshua, KNOWING that IF you RETURN to an active and deliberate LIFE of sin, there remains ONLY fearful judgment and condemnation:

    Heb 10:26 - 10:27

    26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
    27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

    Because this would place Yeshua back upon the Cross to continue with the shedding of His blood, and that is not allowed:

    Heb 6:4 - 6:8

    4 For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
    5 And have tasted the good word of Elohim, and the powers of the world to come,
    6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of Elohim afresh, and put [Him] to an open shame.
    7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from Elohim:
    8 But that which beareth thorns and briers [is] rejected, and [is] nigh unto cursing; whose end [is] to be burned.

    The Apostle Peter agrees with this as he indicates that those who have ESCAPED the pollution's of this world (having their sin gone INTO remission) through the KNOWLEDGE of them shedding His blood, and then they become entangled and are overcome, their latter end is far worse, and it would have been better for them to have never heard about them shedding His blood:

    2Pet 2:20 - 2:22

    20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world (having their sin go INTO remission) through the knowledge (knowing how THEIR sin shed His blood) of Yahweh and Saviour Messiah Yeshua, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
    21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known [it], to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
    22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog [is] turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

    Hopefully guyguy, these few Scriptures do help to clarify how the shedding of His blood by US is the catalyst to redeem us OUT from our sin (the remission of our sin). Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
    Col 2:16 & 17 Teaches us that no "man" is to determine what we eat or drink, or how the Sabbath, Holy Days, and New Moon should be observed, instead, The Body of Messiah determines those things, just like what happened in Acts 15.

    Now, The Body of Messiah determined that since Moses is READ every Sabbath in the Synagogues (Acts 15:21), the Gentiles would be able to HEAR (Luke 16:31, John 5:46-47), and then do those things to farewell (Acts 15:29). Those FOUR necessary commands that The Body of Messiah determined for the Gentiles, were FROM the Law of Moses. So do not let anyone deceive you into believing falsely about the Law of Moses.

  3. #48
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    Lucy, you are more than welcome.

    Quote Originally Posted by LucySmith View Post
    guyguy and Ken on stage
    speaking in a loud voice

    guy guy
    ''well Ken,,
    what is your point''?

    Ken
    hmm,
    '' well I don't have a point, really~~~
    but I wanted to point out
    the point you failed to make guyguy''

    Guyguy
    So Ken
    ''you have no point right?
    to the point you are making
    but made it anyways''

    Ken
    ''well yes guyguy.
    that's the point you see
    I am making a point but you don't see my point ''

    Guyguy
    '' Oh Ken
    I do see your point,
    when you made the point but you didn't give any scripture to the point you made
    so
    I didnt understand the point you were making in the 1st place
    because when you make a point people understand the point you are making
    but
    in your case Ken
    no one understands all the points you don't make
    and
    don't use scripture to back up the points you are not making''

    Ken
    '' don't be ridiculous Guyguy
    when I make a point, its my point,
    my point belongs to me and is mine.
    if you don't understand my point,
    well hmmmm, I don't understand it either but it is still my point..''

    crowd hisses
    and
    boos boos boos.. [where is those rotten tomatoes]

    actors exit stage left
    guyguy points Ken to the way off the stage
    Ken is easily lost.
    Lucy, you are more than welcome to step in and explain to us why YOUR g-d's justice requires that his only good child be punished in the place of his wicked children. And also explain why the shedding of his blood is necessary for YOUR blood thirsty g-d to grant you forgiveness. Yea, I know, you will remain silent in answering. Ken
    Col 2:16 & 17 Teaches us that no "man" is to determine what we eat or drink, or how the Sabbath, Holy Days, and New Moon should be observed, instead, The Body of Messiah determines those things, just like what happened in Acts 15.

    Now, The Body of Messiah determined that since Moses is READ every Sabbath in the Synagogues (Acts 15:21), the Gentiles would be able to HEAR (Luke 16:31, John 5:46-47), and then do those things to farewell (Acts 15:29). Those FOUR necessary commands that The Body of Messiah determined for the Gentiles, were FROM the Law of Moses. So do not let anyone deceive you into believing falsely about the Law of Moses.

  4. #49
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    really?????

    why so ken????


    When I answer you don't like what I post and like Michael said , you don't know the scriptures.
    suggestion
    .
    Jesus sacrificed His life as our SAVIOUR
    = HE sacrificed Himself to save us all because all of us were captives
    NO ONE kill him
    HE GAVE UP IS LIFE.

    why don't you find out the truth Ken
    that way we can all be on the same page

    if you think on things deeply that is
    consider a little story of
    a midget and a giant

    setting the scene
    the midget has to fight the mighty giant and the midget looses the bout and is blamed for loosing to the giant.
    *= midget is the human race
    *= giant is the well equipped unseen supernatural devil who is crafty and a deceiver
    and
    the MIDGET was lowered UNWILLINGLY into the Giants territory


    Immanuel came to SAVE THE MIDGETS AND KNOCK OUT THE GIANTS AND HE DID THIS PERFECTLY BY DYING ON THE CROSS FOR THE ''''SINS''' of the world
    John the B nailed it
    ''the lamb who takes away the sins of the world.''


    now IF YOU DONT LIKE THE SAVIOUR'S sacrifice for us all
    as the jews don't - become a jew.
    go live in Jerusalem
    wear a cap
    get a shawl
    and go Saturday sabbath chanting at the wailing wall.

    but don't tell us all '''your version of your point of view''' as you have ''''no point''''' as we found out.
    its POINTLESS AND
    '''' WHATEVER KENNY DOLL WHATEVER'''..... you know something ken
    people get very tired of religious cancers....the talkers but never the walkers.
    I spend time now seeing the world through the color of my faith.
    I see things as I want them to be.
    I feel as though those things I desire were already true in my life.
    I speak words that confirm this new reality.
    I don't deny my current circumstance I just realize that it is only a momentary picture that will change to reflect my new awareness of being- as I persist in holding the vision, thoughts and feelings of the reality I want to create in christ.

  5. #50
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    Lucy, just as I thought.

    Quote Originally Posted by LucySmith View Post
    why so ken????


    When I answer you don't like what I post and like Michael said , you don't know the scriptures.
    suggestion
    .
    Jesus sacrificed His life as our SAVIOUR
    = HE sacrificed Himself to save us all because all of us were captives
    NO ONE kill him
    HE GAVE UP IS LIFE.

    why don't you find out the truth Ken
    that way we can all be on the same page

    if you think on things deeply that is
    consider a little story of
    a midget and a giant

    setting the scene
    the midget has to fight the mighty giant and the midget looses the bout and is blamed for loosing to the giant.
    *= midget is the human race
    *= giant is the well equipped unseen supernatural devil who is crafty and a deceiver
    and
    the MIDGET was lowered UNWILLINGLY into the Giants territory


    Immanuel came to SAVE THE MIDGETS AND KNOCK OUT THE GIANTS AND HE DID THIS PERFECTLY BY DYING ON THE CROSS FOR THE ''''SINS''' of the world
    John the B nailed it
    ''the lamb who takes away the sins of the world.''


    now IF YOU DONT LIKE THE SAVIOUR'S sacrifice for us all
    as the jews don't - become a jew.
    go live in Jerusalem
    wear a cap
    get a shawl
    and go Saturday sabbath chanting at the wailing wall.

    but don't tell us all '''your version of your point of view''' as you have ''''no point''''' as we found out.
    its POINTLESS
    Lucy, just as I thought. Not a word from you about YOUR blood thirsty g-d. Ken
    Col 2:16 & 17 Teaches us that no "man" is to determine what we eat or drink, or how the Sabbath, Holy Days, and New Moon should be observed, instead, The Body of Messiah determines those things, just like what happened in Acts 15.

    Now, The Body of Messiah determined that since Moses is READ every Sabbath in the Synagogues (Acts 15:21), the Gentiles would be able to HEAR (Luke 16:31, John 5:46-47), and then do those things to farewell (Acts 15:29). Those FOUR necessary commands that The Body of Messiah determined for the Gentiles, were FROM the Law of Moses. So do not let anyone deceive you into believing falsely about the Law of Moses.

  6. #51
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    HE SAID... SHE SAID... WHO SAID..... WE SAID... oh...!!!!!

    2 OPTIONS of a dual bible..
    https://christopherenoch.org/why-the...rine-is-wrong/
    and again,
    https://www.christianity.com/jesus/d...ubstitute.html

    hmmm
    1+1= 5= in a dual corrupt bible

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    act 6 scene 4b
    Lucy and Ken

    Lucy to ken
    what is your opinion on 2 meanings and 2 different ways of thinking Ken
    and how do you think on this topic?

    Ken
    '' I only think one way Lucy,
    that is, my way is the right way, I believe the bible''?

    Lucy
    '' oh so what way do you believe again.
    *substitution or no substitute'?

    Ken
    '' NO substation Lucy,
    that is my point, I am making this point of NO substitution''

    Lucy
    '' ok,
    so how do you view substitution and millions who believe this
    and
    the alternative of no substitution?''

    Ken
    '' they are wrong wrong wrong,
    its my way or the highway and that is my point,
    I am making that point Lucy''

    Lucy
    ''well Ken
    if you care to do some homework
    you can see there is food for thought on both sides - nothing is clear
    it is a very grey area.''

    Ken
    '' my point is,
    I am making this point,
    there is no substitution = period~~~!!!!!~~~~
    and I am sticking to my point and I always do''

    Lucy
    '' Why do you think, there is 2 views vowing they are correct?
    Do you think it weird = both sides claim to be correct and you know Ken,
    There are many many dual stories like this
    It is called DUALISM.
    Like the G-ds cannot make up their minds and
    get very confused.''

    Ken
    ''ofcourse Lucy,
    my point is, you have to believe like me,
    because I point out, the true points others miss
    I am expert at pointing to points I make.''

    Lucy
    ''hmmm, who made you such an expert at points and
    making points so we all understand your point?''

    Ken
    '' I made up my points,
    they are mine and I can make points to point to the point I am making''

    Lucy
    '' I see
    so as you believe in Dualism, in the bible
    it now seems Ken
    you will have to make 2 points~~~~
    so
    we then can understand your 1st point to believe your 2nd point
    and pray
    we don't get a 3rd point from you
    because all your points will become confused''

    amen
    let us all pray ken has no 3rd point
    [ from his other points 1 and 2.]
    I spend time now seeing the world through the color of my faith.
    I see things as I want them to be.
    I feel as though those things I desire were already true in my life.
    I speak words that confirm this new reality.
    I don't deny my current circumstance I just realize that it is only a momentary picture that will change to reflect my new awareness of being- as I persist in holding the vision, thoughts and feelings of the reality I want to create in christ.

  7. #52
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    What would Lucy do?

    Quote Originally Posted by LucySmith View Post
    2 OPTIONS of a dual bible..
    https://christopherenoch.org/why-the...rine-is-wrong/
    and again,
    https://www.christianity.com/jesus/d...ubstitute.html

    hmmm
    1+1= 5= in a dual corrupt bible

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    act 6 scene 4b
    Lucy and Ken

    Lucy to ken
    what is your opinion on 2 meanings and 2 different ways of thinking Ken
    and how do you think on this topic?

    Ken
    '' I only think one way Lucy,
    that is, my way is the right way, I believe the bible''?

    Lucy
    '' oh so what way do you believe again.
    *substitution or no substitute'?

    Ken
    '' NO substation Lucy,
    that is my point, I am making this point of NO substitution''

    Lucy
    '' ok,
    so how do you view substitution and millions who believe this
    and
    the alternative of no substitution?''

    Ken
    '' they are wrong wrong wrong,
    its my way or the highway and that is my point,
    I am making that point Lucy''

    Lucy
    ''well Ken
    if you care to do some homework
    you can see there is food for thought on both sides - nothing is clear
    it is a very grey area.''

    Ken
    '' my point is,
    I am making this point,
    there is no substitution = period~~~!!!!!~~~~
    and I am sticking to my point and I always do''

    Lucy
    '' Why do you think, there is 2 views vowing they are correct?
    Do you think it weird = both sides claim to be correct and you know Ken,
    There are many many dual stories like this
    It is called DUALISM.
    Like the G-ds cannot make up their minds and
    get very confused.''

    Ken
    ''ofcourse Lucy,
    my point is, you have to believe like me,
    because I point out, the true points others miss
    I am expert at pointing to points I make.''

    Lucy
    ''hmmm, who made you such an expert at points and
    making points so we all understand your point?''

    Ken
    '' I made up my points,
    they are mine and I can make points to point to the point I am making''

    Lucy
    '' I see
    so as you believe in Dualism, in the bible
    it now seems Ken
    you will have to make 2 points~~~~
    so
    we then can understand your 1st point to believe your 2nd point
    and pray
    we don't get a 3rd point from you
    because all your points will become confused''

    amen
    let us all pray ken has no 3rd point
    [ from his other points 1 and 2.]
    Lucy, what did you do? Did you punish your daughter when your sons acted up? What decent parent would punish their good child in the place of their wicked children? Traditional christianity is under a Strong Delusion because they REFUSE to believe the TRUTH that THEY, with the help of wicked men, KILLED and SHED the blood of Messiah Yeshua. And that's the ONLY point that is TRUE. Ken
    Col 2:16 & 17 Teaches us that no "man" is to determine what we eat or drink, or how the Sabbath, Holy Days, and New Moon should be observed, instead, The Body of Messiah determines those things, just like what happened in Acts 15.

    Now, The Body of Messiah determined that since Moses is READ every Sabbath in the Synagogues (Acts 15:21), the Gentiles would be able to HEAR (Luke 16:31, John 5:46-47), and then do those things to farewell (Acts 15:29). Those FOUR necessary commands that The Body of Messiah determined for the Gentiles, were FROM the Law of Moses. So do not let anyone deceive you into believing falsely about the Law of Moses.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImAHebrew View Post
    His blood was shed for the remission of my sin. Shalom guyguy, I have no problem with those four texts of Scriptures. Yeshua's blood was shed so for the remission of sin in my life, are you denying that His blood was shed to bring about the remission of sin in your life? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew/Ken.
    Ken: I thought that you did not believe in substitutions? You have already proven my point for me and admitted to my point; it took Christ to shed His own blood for you instead of you shedding your own blood for the remission of your own sins as those four texts do prove.

  9. #54
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    Thumbs up Dualism!

    Hi Lucy,
    Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

    I make this post to you in an attempt to set the record straight concerning the belief of the Tzaddikim (the Just Ones) in dualism. Our belief in dualism is simply this:

    • The Word of ELOHIM is first physical
    • And the same physical Word is also spiritual

    The Tzaddikim appeal to the Parables of Yahushua to prove this point. Yahushua taught in parables so that the vast majority of HIS listeners would hear HIS Rhema and not have a clue concerning what HE was actually teaching.

    Oh, yes, the vast majority would say, we all know how to sow seed, and we all know what happens when seed is sown improperly. This Yahushua is a really a good story teller, and then HIS listeners would go away thinking to themselves that they perfectly understood HIS telling or teaching.

    Privately apart from the crowds, Messiah Yahushua would explain HIS true teaching to HIS Disciples. Yes, there is a physical seed, but Messiah explained to them that HE was really teaching about the spiritual seed which is the Word of ELOHIM which could be sown in their hearts.

    Basically, I am working here to help you understand that the Word of ELOHIM is just like the parables. The Word of ELOHIM has a physical side, and the Word of ELOHIM has a spiritual side. The two sides are not opposed to each other except for those who like yourself cannot see or understand both sides of the Word:

    • The physical Word
    • And the spiritual word

    Hoping that you can see this point of order, I am,
    Sincerely, Latuwr
    The Currahee Band Of Brothers Are Beginning To Arise In The HOLY PLACE! Listen to them!!!

  10. #55
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    Thumbs up Our Heavenly Father Would Never Punish The Innocent In the Place Of The Guilty!

    Hi Lucy,
    Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

    I make this post to you so that you may fully understand that my above post does not relieve you of the responsibility to answer ImAHebrew concerning his question to you:

    • Did you ever as a parent ever punish an innocent child for the sin of a guilty child?

    This idea of punishing the guilty in the place of the innocent is a false idea fostered by Satan because the spiritual in this case does not the follow the physical as the proper understanding of dualism requires. You yourself as a parent never punished an innocent son or daughter for the disobedience of a guilty son or daughter, or did you?

    If your belief that your God punished Jesus in your place for your sins is true, then why is it that your parents never punished you for the disobedience of your siblings?

    Please give your answers to ImAHebrew and not to me, I am,
    Sincerely, Latuwr
    The Currahee Band Of Brothers Are Beginning To Arise In The HOLY PLACE! Listen to them!!!

  11. #56
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    point 1 = point 2

    Quote Originally Posted by guyguy View Post
    Ken: I thought that you did not believe in substitutions? You have already proven my point for me and admitted to my point; it took Christ to shed His own blood for you instead of you shedding your own blood for the remission of your own sins as those four texts do prove.
    Ken believes the bible and he now 2 options,
    he has swung around from point 1 now to 2 as I foretold in # post 51

    his standard was point 1 but he switched sides and now locked into point 2
    so now Ken has 2 points to reconsider
    * if he gave his own blood for his sins
    * if Jesus gave His blood for dear Ken's sins.

    if ken agrees with point 1 he cannot in all fairness agree with point2
    then ofcourse he can '' invent point 3''

    hmmmmm
    I do believe Ken has trapped himself,. between point 1 and point 2
    then ofcourse
    he could of ''shed his blood for himself while shaving?''


    its a worry



    to answer Ken's question
    did my dad punish me
    NO he never did once
    if I did wrong, he would take time to show me, my options and explain the good the bad an the ugly outcome of my choices
    He was a very loving wise man, and because HE WAS SUCH A WONDERFUL FATHER, 3 girls never really got into trouble of any kind
    infact because of his holy wisdom the 3 of us, excelled in all we do
    sister is a educational adviser to the government
    other sister is active as a library researcher, a proof reader for famous authors and works with her husband who does lighting for american movies
    [ LOTR being one such an example]
    I AM WELL ABLE TO BOAST of my father's parental skills AND AS I DO FOR MY divine ABBA
    I spend time now seeing the world through the color of my faith.
    I see things as I want them to be.
    I feel as though those things I desire were already true in my life.
    I speak words that confirm this new reality.
    I don't deny my current circumstance I just realize that it is only a momentary picture that will change to reflect my new awareness of being- as I persist in holding the vision, thoughts and feelings of the reality I want to create in christ.

  12. #57
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    IT IS INTERESTING in retail to see how families live

    together
    Christian families = basically in disharmony strife and upset
    I know well, because I am told by others how they live.... basically..... unhappily.
    always problems
    the children cannot wait to leave home and move as far away as possible,.
    THAT IS ALWAYS A SIGN of disfunctional parenting.

    disfunctional parents make for even more disfunctional children.

    that's the matrix.
    I spend time now seeing the world through the color of my faith.
    I see things as I want them to be.
    I feel as though those things I desire were already true in my life.
    I speak words that confirm this new reality.
    I don't deny my current circumstance I just realize that it is only a momentary picture that will change to reflect my new awareness of being- as I persist in holding the vision, thoughts and feelings of the reality I want to create in christ.

  13. #58
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    No substitutions.

    Quote Originally Posted by guyguy View Post
    Ken: I thought that you did not believe in substitutions? You have already proven my point for me and admitted to my point; it took Christ to shed His own blood for you instead of you shedding your own blood for the remission of your own sins as those four texts do prove.
    Shalom guyguy, no, I do not believe in the twisted and distorted doctrine of "substitutionalism." Here are the four Scriptures you mentioned and let's see IF there is any mention of a "substitute:" Matt.26:28, Mark 14:24, Luke 22:20, Heb.9:22

    Mt 26:28 For this is My blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
    Mk 14:24 And He said unto them, This is My blood of the new testament, which is shed for many.
    Lk 22:20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup [is] the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.
    Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

    First, can someone die FOR someone else, and it not be in a "substitutional" sense? Sure, consider soldiers dying FOR their country, or FOR the families back home. What about police officers dying FOR society in general when doing their job...no substitution there. And take for example Kendrick Castillo who died trying to disarm a gunman in his classroom. You could say he died FOR his classmates, so they would not be killed, but he in no way was dying as their substitute. In the same way, Yeshua died so that sin would not remain in our lives to kill us, and His death on the Cross, through the shedding of His blood, is what REDEEMS us OUT from the former way of life that we existed in. We were sinners, causing His bloodshed, and when we came to a KNOWLEDGE of this Truth, we CHANGED, we TURNED from our former way of life of LIVING in sin, to where we no longer would CONTINUE in sin, sacrificing Him. This KNOWLEDGE of shedding His blood brings about the REMISSION of sin in a sinners life (he/she is no longer sinning from their heart-it's not deliberate sin), and THIS is what Yeshua was speaking about in the verses you quoted, not SUBSTITUTION. And concerning Heb 9:22. It took the shedding of His innocent blood BY us to BRING about the remission of sin in our lives. Sinners would not change from being sinners unless they come to KNOW that they shed His blood, so without the shedding of His blood, there would be no TURNING or REMISSION from sin. Do you see the difference? Don't get backed into a delusional corner like Lucy is by believing that YOUR g-d requires Righteous and Innocent blood be shed in your place just so YOUR g-d can forgive you. That is INSANE to think a parent would punish their only good child just so they could forgive their wicked children. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
    Col 2:16 & 17 Teaches us that no "man" is to determine what we eat or drink, or how the Sabbath, Holy Days, and New Moon should be observed, instead, The Body of Messiah determines those things, just like what happened in Acts 15.

    Now, The Body of Messiah determined that since Moses is READ every Sabbath in the Synagogues (Acts 15:21), the Gentiles would be able to HEAR (Luke 16:31, John 5:46-47), and then do those things to farewell (Acts 15:29). Those FOUR necessary commands that The Body of Messiah determined for the Gentiles, were FROM the Law of Moses. So do not let anyone deceive you into believing falsely about the Law of Moses.

  14. #59
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    Ken: You will go to untold lengths to convince yourself that your not believing in substitutes; but the fact remains that you did not shed your own blood for the remission of your own sins, and Christ shed his own blood instead of you shedding your own blood.

  15. #60
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    ACTUALLY kEN I DONT BELIEVE IMMANUEL DIED IN MY PLACE AT ALL....

    HE DIED FORTHE SINS OF THE WORLD we are told.
    but He also said to '' pick up the cross and follow Me'' = that means = our turn to walk His walk
    HE MADE THE WAY POSSIBLE for His ekklesia to follow
    how
    with their cross.

    now that act = is never ever going to be substitutional.

    so what does ''picking up our cross mean'' in the 3d Matrix.
    it means, among other things
    * we too die to self, [our own personal self will]
    * die to flaws of the flesh
    * die to all religious misconceptions,
    * die to all religious self fix its
    * die to all human feebleness
    * die to the unsound mind
    * die to all the unsound deceived values of the matrix [called vanity]


    THE WALK INTO THE WAY, is a cross bearing life of '''''''''''''''''''''self destruction of the carnal adamic man'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''


    something you desperately need to learn Ken as following parts of the law of Moses will never BRING FORTH A CROSS BEARING LIFE
    if it had the Saviour would never have been needed
    I spend time now seeing the world through the color of my faith.
    I see things as I want them to be.
    I feel as though those things I desire were already true in my life.
    I speak words that confirm this new reality.
    I don't deny my current circumstance I just realize that it is only a momentary picture that will change to reflect my new awareness of being- as I persist in holding the vision, thoughts and feelings of the reality I want to create in christ.

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